“A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, 'You are mad; you are not like us.” ― St. Antony the Great
No, I'm afraid he won't & neither will his supporters within the Hierarchy. Just like ISIS they must be severely dealt with. Canon Law has not been effective to date but really has enough study gone into whether he is, in fact, a true pope either by his dubious election or the fact that he most probably was a heretic before being elected? It would seem not, as the whole Hierarchy is embroiled in Modernism & won't budge. Mental & emotional pressure must be continually applied & the CDF must make Canon Law effective for both the future election of Popes & the outing of bad Popes whether technically heretical or just a severe impediment to the Catholic faith.
Tragically, the Pope will not listen. As Mrs. Muggeridge said in her excellent tome, The Desolate City, the leadership that is now operational in the church carried out a revolution along the lines of Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez. The only difference is that the revolution within the church doesn't evince any directly connectable bloodshed...the violence is psychological,spiritual and emotional. Even more tragically, Francis has packed the College of Cardinals with a majority of novus ordo revolutionaries. As as Franklin Roosevelt packed the Supreme Court with his sycophants and like minded justices...so to has Francis packed the Curiae and the voting Cardinals. A number of his fellow revolutionaries are now in position to become Pope. The Philippine Cardinal aka The Francis of Asia is only 54 and could do decades of damage just as Chief Justice John Roberts has done. We must pray for a traditional morality Pope to assume command and clean up the Aegean Stables.
Fr. Luigi Villa published a book that stalled the beatification process for Montini ("Paul VI Beatified?). Word made it back to him (Fr. Villa) that the ecclesiastical authorities would ignore him as best they could, and wait until he died, and then carry on with the plans to canonize Paul VI. Fr. Villa made this known before he passed away. He died a couple of years ago, in his 90s, and wouldn't you know that within weeks the push was made once again to raise Montini to the altars. My hunch is that Fr. Buenos Aires will have a fit with this 'plea' as he did with the infamous letter from the 13 cardinals but ultimately will ignore it.
The rule enunciated by Saint Paul admits an important exception. Authors teach that the admonition required by the Apostle of Gentiles is aimed at making it clear to the sinner that he is denying a truth of the faith, that is, a truth that cannot be denied under any pretext whatsoever. There are cases when such mistakes cannot take place. There are cases in which the heretic obviously knows that the truth he is denying or casting into doubt is a truth of the faith. For example, one cannot admit that a scholar of theology does not know that the Virginity of Our Lady is a dogma, or that the conciliar "popes" are/were ignorant of the heresies they teach/taught.
De Lugo: "Also in the external forum, a previous admonition and reprimand is not always required to punish someone as heretical and pertinacious; nor is such requirement always admitted in the practice of the Holy Office. For if it can be ascertained in some other way, given the defendant’s qualities, obvious doctrinal knowledge and other circumstances, that he could not be unaware that his doctrine was opposed to the Church’s, by this very fact he will be considered a heretic... The reason for this is clear, for external admonition can only serve to make the person in error become aware of the opposition existing between his error and the doctrine of the Church. If he knows the subject much more through books and conciliar definitions than he could through the words of his admonisher, there is no reason to require another admonition for him to become pertinacious against the Church." (de Lugo, Disputationes, 2:disp. XX, sect. IV, no. 157-158). See also Antonius Diana, Resolutiones Morales (Venice: Franc. Baba, 1635), pars IV, tract. VII, resol. 36; Vermeersch, 3:245; Noldin, Compl. de Poenis Eccl., 21; Regatillo, 2:508 .)
Fosterers of Heresy: Fosterers of heresy “are those who, by some act or omission, do heretics a favor that helps promote the heretical doctrine.” (Wernz-Vidal, 7:450.)
The favoring of heresy by omission: They favor the heretic who, by virtue of their office, are obliged to arrest, punish, or expel him, and yet neglect these duties. For example, the judges to whom a bishop or Inquisitors resort, or to whom they deliver a heretic to be punished; and also the Inquisitors and ecclesiastical prelates themselves, if they neglect what they are obliged to do by virtue of their office and thus favor heresy. The same should be said of the other ministers and officials of the Holy Office and even of the private person on whom this office is imposed by those who have the power to impose it; and also of the witnesses who, obliged to say the truth when legitimately interrogated, hide it to favor a heretic. (de Lugo, 2:disp. XXV, sect. 1, no. 6. In the same sense one can read Suarez, De Fide, 12:disp. XXIV, sect. 1, no. 6; Schmalzgrueber, tom. V, 9:no. 94.)
Defenders of Heretics: Defenders “are those who do not internally adhere to the heretical doctrine but in spite of that defend it in word or in writing against those who attack it. They are also those who protect, by force or by other unjust means, the persons of heretics against a legitimate persecution carried out on account of the heresy.” (Wernz-Vidal, 7:451.)
The answer to your question Vox is no. Because the appeal is being made by people PF considers "ultra conservatives" who according to him say no to everything and the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. He is most obstinate and arrogant and barring a miracle will not change the path he is on. Maranatha Lord Jesus
"He has spoken until now, in his official homilies, very beautiful Catholic doctrine. I hope he will continue to teach in very clear manner the Catholic doctrine."
In June 2014 A.D., one traditionalist after another insisted that Pope Francis was a heretic. In particular, Traditionalists almost daily commented upon Pope Francis homilies, which they insisted were filled with, controversy, confusion, and heresy.
However, Bishop Schneider contradicted traditionalists dramatically as he insisted that the Holy Father's homilies were clear and filled with "very beautiful Catholic doctrine".
In June 2014 A.D., Rorate Caeli said the following in regard to Pope Francis and Catholic Social Teaching:
"Very few indeed have been making the case, a case that is true, that the positions stated by Pope Francis on economic and social matters are much closer to the Traditional Catholic position on the economy and the State than not."
"Indeed, it can be said unhesitatingly that this is one area in which the Pope will find mostly allies in Traditional Catholics."
In June 2014 A.D., one traditionalist after another insisted that Pope Francis' Social Teachings were not Catholic. Instead, traditionalists insisted that Pope Francis' Social Teachings were filled with communist heresy.
But Rorate Caeli said otherwise.
Considering that His Holiness Pope Francis has not changed his teachings from June 2014 A.D. to date, Bishop Schneider and Rorate Caeli, via their statements in question, would find it difficult to flip-flop on that which they had said about Pope Francis in 2014 A.D.
God has been speaking for approx 6000 years and C Jorge hasn't listened to his word. We have a Judas Pope, full of pride and self love. The bride of Christ is on the cross, may we fall to our knees and ask the lord for this bitter cup to pass...
His Holiness Pope Francis has demonstrated that he will accept criticism that is fair, and even strong, and change his ways in the face of fair criticism.
Pope Francis has demonstrated that in major fashion.
Pope Francis conducted an interview with America Magazine. The interview was published online on September 19, 2013 A.D. In regard to abortion, homosexual unions, and contraception, Pope Francis said the following:
"I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that."
The National Abortion Rights Action League, believing, incredibly, that Pope Francis was one of the them, misrepresented his statement, then proceed to print the following to their Facebook page and Twitter page:
"Dear Pope Francis, thank you. Signed, prochoice women everywhere".
The following day, Pope Francis issued a powerful attack against abortion.
-- Pope surprises, delights 40,000 Italian pro-lifers, joins March for Life
ROME, May 12, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) – "Pope Francis surprised about 40,000 Italian and international participants in today’s Marcia per la Vita (March for Life) Internazionale in Rome this morning, when he left the Apostolic Palace to greet them personally from his popemobile in the street where they were lined up."
Although there was any doubt about his defense of and support for the Culture of Life, Pope Francis responded to the "reprimand" that he had received for not having "spoken much about these things" (abortion, homosexual unions, and contraception).
From September 20, 2013 A.D. to date, he has spoken on many occasions against abortion, homosexual unions, and contraception.
Pope Francis acknowledged his "reprimand" in question. In humble fashion, he accepted criticism directed at him and corrected the situation in question.
Therefore, Pope Francis, in major fashion, has demonstrated that he has the humility to accept and respond well to fair criticism of his ways.
Mark Thomas: Therefore, Pope Francis, in major fashion, has demonstrated that he has the humility to accept and respond well to fair criticism of his ways.
The June 28 conversation was with journalist Joaquín Morales Solá, who writes for La Nacion in Argentina. It was Morales who used the word “ultra-conservative” to describe internal resistance to the pope, and Francis said he “rejects conflict” with them.
“They do their job, and I do mine,” the pope said.
“I want a Church that is open, understanding, that accompanies wounded families,” he said. “They say no to everything. I go ahead, without looking over my shoulder.”
Yet with what Morales described as a “wide smile,” the pontiff continued: “Nails are removed by applying pressure to the top … or, you set them aside to rest when the age of retirement arrives.”
In regard to Wolverine's reference to Ann Barnhardt:
I feel sad for Ann Barnhardt. I don't recall having know anything about her until a couple of weeks ago when I read something about her (and commented about it) on Vox's blog.
My understanding is that she converted a few years ago from Protestantism. It is obvious that she is unfamiliar with various Catholic teachings...or she is aware but rejects various teachings.
-- Ann Barnhardt speaks in vicious, hateful tones that are contrary to the teaching of the Holy Catholic Church. She is either unfamiliar with or rejects #2477, 2478, 2479 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
-- She has a false, very deficient and disturbing, anti-Catholic understanding of the Holy Mass as evidence by the following column that she published last month:
In that column, Ann Barnhardt declared the following:
1. His Holiness Pope Francis is not Pope. "Bergoglio is a flagrant blaspheming heretic", according to Ann Barnhardt.
2. Pope Francis is an anti-Pope.
3. Although she is schismatic, Ann Barnhardt declared that she has gone to "Mass and received Holy Communion...from a priest in a community 100% in unity with the See of Peter. Antipope Bergoglio was commemorated in the Canon."
4. However, she declared the following about Masses at which the priest commemorates Pope Francis during the Canon:
"...the commemoration of him as Pope in the Canon is either ILLICIT, or MISTAKEN (her emphases).
That is a grave and false charge that a Catholic cannot possible accept.
5. She insisted that "for me to receive Holy Communion in a Mass in which I know that Bergoglio has been commemorated as Pope is NOT (her emphasis) an act of hypocrisy on my part."
She is a very, very confused woman. Confused to the point where she makes horrific, unorthodox, schismatic comments about Holy Mass and Pope Francis.
As I noted last month on Vox's blog, the True Church teaches, of course, that during Mass, the Faithful are united with God's priest and the priest's prayers, which, in turn, are the True Church's official liturgical prayers.
That, for example, is reflected in #93 of Pope Venerable Pius XII's Encyclical Mediator Dei, he noted the following:
"The people unite their hearts in praise, impetration, expiation and thanksgiving with the prayers or intention of the priest, even of the High Priest himself..."
However, Ann Barnhardt has rejected that unity with God's priest as she has rejected the priest's prayer during the sacred Canon that commemorates His Holiness Pope Francis.
Even more horrific is that Ann Barnhardt attacked the validity of the True Church's sacred Canon of the Mass when she declared that the sacred Canon contains an "illicit" prayer — the commemoration of Pope Francis.
Ann Barnhardt is a very, very confused, schismatic who has offered horrific, false declarations about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
To anybody who supports Ann Barnhardt...well, that's your business. Good luck attempting to square her anti-Catholic understanding of Catholicism with God's Truth and His Holy Catholic Religion.
Conversely, I reject Ann Barnhardt's false declarations about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I reject her false and vicious comments about the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis.
I pray that Ann Barnhardt will depart the anti-Catholic world of schism that she has embraced.
Mark Thomas: "Therefore, Pope Francis, in major fashion, has demonstrated that he has the humility to accept and respond well to fair criticism of his ways."
Pope Francis: Slyly smiling, "Nails are removed by applying pressure to the top … or, you set them aside to rest when the age of retirement arrives."
Conclusion: Pope Francis will get rid of whoever disagrees with him. He is vindictive, not humble.
Here are some attacks that Ann Barnhardt, a schismatic, has lodged against Traditional Catholics who, Deo gratias, love the TLM and wish to protect the TLM against liturgical abuse.
Ann Barnhardt said..."I believe Bergoglio is a Diabolical Narcissist...But DN is EVERYWHERE in the Church, including Traddyland. The big tell amongst Trads is hyper liturgical fetishism."
Here is an additional link to an Ann Barnhardt column in which she again warned that "Traddyland" has serious issues that pertain to "Trads" who are protective of the TLM as well as homosexuals who are attracted to the TLM.
Does she enjoy any...any...support among Traditional Catholics? Are there any Catholics, other than Ann Barnhardt, who employ the term unfortunate term "Traddyland"?
That is the type of condescending term that TLM opponents would use.
His Holiness Pope Francis to journalist Joaquín Morales Solá:
"I don’t cut off heads. That was never my style." An additional indication of Pope Francis' humble approach to life.
Thank you for having referenced the above interview as that just spurred the following memory: A fierce critic of Pope Francis testified to Pope Francis' humility.
Mario Palmaro (Requiescat in pace...2014 A.D.) was an Italian traditional Catholic writer and journalist who published articles that criticized heavily Pope Francis.
Pope Francis, despite having been attacked verbally by Mario Palmaro, telephoned Mario Palmaro.
"Pope Francis told me that he was very close to me, having learned of my health condition, of my grave illness, and I clearly noticed his deep empathy, the attention for a person as such, beyond ideas and opinions, while I live through a time of trial and suffering."
"I was astonished, amazed, above all moved: for me, as a Catholic, that which I was experiencing was one of the most beautiful experiences in my life."
"But I felt the duty to remind the Pope that I, together with Gnocchi, had expressed specific criticisms regarding his work, while I renewed my total fidelity [to him] as a son of the Church.
"The Pope almost did not let me finish the sentence, saying that he had understood that those criticisms had been made with love, and how important it had been for him to receive them." [These words] "comforted me greatly."
What beautiful testimony, from a man who had criticized Pope Francis, to Pope Francis' humility and love. Despite his having been bashed, Pope Francis expressed his brotherly love to his critic in question.
Blessed are the peacemakers...such as His Holiness Pope Francis.
His Holiness Pope Francis to journalist Joaquín Morales Solá:
"I don’t cut off heads. That was never my style." An additional indication of Pope Francis' humble approach to life.
Thank you for having referenced the above interview as that just spurred the following memory: A fierce critic of Pope Francis testified to Pope Francis' humility.
Mario Palmaro (Requiescat in pace...2014 A.D.) was an Italian traditional Catholic writer and journalist who published articles that criticized heavily Pope Francis.
Pope Francis, despite having been attacked verbally by Mario Palmaro, telephoned Mario Palmaro.
"Pope Francis told me that he was very close to me, having learned of my health condition, of my grave illness, and I clearly noticed his deep empathy, the attention for a person as such, beyond ideas and opinions, while I live through a time of trial and suffering."
"I was astonished, amazed, above all moved: for me, as a Catholic, that which I was experiencing was one of the most beautiful experiences in my life."
"But I felt the duty to remind the Pope that I, together with Gnocchi, had expressed specific criticisms regarding his work, while I renewed my total fidelity [to him] as a son of the Church.
"The Pope almost did not let me finish the sentence, saying that he had understood that those criticisms had been made with love, and how important it had been for him to receive them." [These words] "comforted me greatly."
What beautiful testimony from a Mario Palmaro, a man who had criticized Pope Francis. Despite his having been criticized heavily, Pope Francis maintained his humility, as well as his love and concern for his brother in Jesus Christ, Mario Palmaro.
Blessed are the peacemakers...such as His Holiness Pope Francis.
Michael Dowd said..."Pope Francis will get rid of whoever disagrees with him."
Let us examine your claim.
A great many Traditionalists insist that the SSPX is a massive thorn in Rome's side as the SSPX reminds "modernist" Rome of her (Rome's) past. The narrative also states that the SSPX's presence within the Church prevents "modernist" Rome from going all-out to inflict apostasy upon the Church.
In 2013 A.D., when he was elected Pope, His Holiness Pope Francis inherited an SSPX that was despised throughout the Church. Conservatives were outraged that the SSPX had "rejected" Pope Benedict XVI's "deal" to regularize the Society.
Father John Zuhlsdorf, who speaks for many conservatives, at the end of Pope Benedict XVI's Pontificate (near the beginning, obviously, of Pope Francis' reign), signified the following disgusting conservative outrage at the SSPX:
"I have written time and again that the SSPX was going to wake up one day and experience the business end of the stick.
"The membership of the SSPX should converge on Rome this week. They should, all together, crawl on hands and knees across St. Peter’s Square and beg the Pope to admit them to his presence. They should implore the Pope to let them kiss his shoe, accept their promises of obedience, and the regularize them before he resigns."
Liberals, of course, despised the SSPX. (To date, that hasn't changed...much.)
Pope Benedict XVI noted the shocking and tremendous hatred within the Church that, sadly, existed against the SSPX:
"And should we not admit that some unpleasant things have also emerged in Church circles? At times one gets the impression that our society needs to have at least one group to which no tolerance may be shown; which one can easily attack and hate."
That was the situation that the SSPX faced on all sides within the Church when Pope Francis assumed the Throne of Saint Peter. One traditionalist after another insisted that "heretical" Pope Francis would, once and for all, crush the SSPX via excommunication to rid the Church of the modernists' greatest enemy, the SSPX.
Conservatives and liberals hoped that Pope Francis would crush the SSPX.
Even as late as September 2014 A.D., traditionalist Louie Verrecchio insisted that Pope Francis would crush the SSPX.
Given that he would have enjoyed massive support within the Church, why didn't Pope Francis crush the SSPX, who resist fiercely heretics, such as the supposed "heretic" Pope Francis?
After all, you said that "Pope Francis will get rid of whoever disagrees with him".
Why did the (supposedly) vicious, hateful, satanic, heretical, anti-TLM, anti-Tradition Pope Francis not only refuse to "get rid" of the SSPX, the most powerful thorn in his modernist side....
...but he did the opposite. He has established beyond all doubt that the SSPX is Catholic. He has praised the SSPX. He declared that Catholics attached to SSPX chapels are "faithful" Catholics. He has positioned the SSPX to obtain regularization from Rome.
Again, what happened to the claim that "Pope Francis will get rid of whoever disagrees with him"?
If I were Pope Francis I would certainly want to rein in SSPX by inviting them to the party so to speak. By doing this he would effectively render them silent just like all the rest of the clergy and yourself, come to think of it. As is said, " Keep your friends close but your enemies closer."
Why would His Holiness Pope Francis desire to "rein in" and render "silent" the SSPX? Why did you float that notion when that contradicts the good will that Pope Francis, going back to his days in Argentina, has for years exhibited toward the SSPX?
Your notion makes a liar out of Pope Francis. Your idea portrays Pope Francis as an evil, dishonest man in regard to his attitude and dealings with the SSPX.
Conversely, Bishop Fellay has portrayed Pope Francis' relationship with the SSPX as one of Christ-like care of his (Pope Francis') SSPX flock. Bishop Fellay has made it clear that from Pope Francis' days in Argentina to date, His Holiness has recognized the SSPX as Catholic.
Pope Francis/Cardinal Bergoglio/Archbishop Bergoglio has always supported the SSPX, according to Bishop Fellay.
I don't mean the following in any nasty sense...and nothing personal...
...when it comes to discerning Pope Francis' relationship and dealings with the SSPX, I believe that Bishop Fellay, rather than you, is the expert.
Therefore, based upon Bishop Fellay's comments in regard to how, over years and years, Pope Francis has viewed and worked with the SSPX, I have confidence that Pope Francis is the SSPX's friend. Pope Francis has the SSPX's best interests at heart.
Michael Dowd said..."As is said, " Keep your friends close but your enemies closer."
Your premise is flawed as Bishop Fellay has made it clear that His Holiness Pope Francis does not view the SSPX as an enemy. In turn, Bishop Fellay has made it clear that the SSPX does not view Pope Francis as an enemy. Pope Francis and Bishop Fellay/SSPX are brothers in Jesus Christ.
As a Christian, you should celebrate and promote that. Correct?
As a Christian, you shouldn't assign double-dealing, evil motives to Pope Francis and his relationship with the SSPX. Correct?
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
#2478: "To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor's thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way: Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another's statement than to condemn it."
#2479: "Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one's neighbor. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity."
Rather than concoct and assign dishonest motives to Pope Francis' dealings with the SSPX, we, as Christians, must pray and work in positive fashion to advance peace between Rome and the SSPX.
I see Mark Thomas is still playing his little games of selectively quoting and misappropriating context not only with regards to pope Francis but Ann Barnhardt as well.
I recommend everyone head over to the links he's posted and actually read what Ann Barnhardt actually said rather than reading it through Mark Thomas' interpretation and misleading statements intended to poison your perception. The joke is that Mark Thomas bases this solely on Anne's use of the word 'Traddyland' to make it out as if she doesn't like TLM or TLM Catholics. Actually Anne just has fun-ribbing rhetorical style when she speaks or writes. And if you actually read what she's said in the articles it will make sense as to why she exposes a little known fact where abusive narcissistic priests are not only found in the Novus Ordo but also amongst the Traditional mass priests and for an interesting reason.
The same can be said for Mark Thomas' cherry-picking attempts to paint Pope Francis as some kind of 'humble' man who just has the Church's best interests at heart. The fact is that Pope Francis will in fact actually say something Catholic when it comes to abortion or homosexuality at times depending on his audience, but then go on to showcase what a hypocrite fork tongued man he is by his actions and all his buddies he cozies up with and strategically brings in whether it's abortionists like Jeffrey Sachs and clearly cheerleading the UN's depopulation agenda by hilariously claiming that the Vatican is only supporting the other half of the initiative to eradicate poverty. Much the same Francis applies when he imagines he can honor baby-killers in public for their other side-works.
Pope Francis is either a fraud, or actually suffers some mental illness where his mouth doesn't know what his hands are doing. And Mark Thomas is trying to apply lipstick to a pig in his attempts to whitewash the Pope's character.
That Mark Thomas even refers to Mario Palmaro's gushing is hilarious. It's not really a surprise to anyone that Pope Francis intends to try and put on the public act of humility like the pharisees praying loudly. Actual humility would be the Pope actually learning from Palmaro's criticism and implements changes to what he does. He doesn't. And men like Palmaro will continue to attempt to appeal to this feigned humility and false character of the Pope in desperation so that he might listen and understand. But he won't as has been clearly seen and as evidenced by the Pope's own words that Mark Thomas will never quote here where Pope Francis says he doesn't care what people think, he'll do what he wants, and he'll hammer down whoever needs to be hammered. And if the Pope doesn't want to do the dirty deeds himself, he has numerous henchmen he appoints to carry out the work of the devil for him.
Johnno has Mark Thomas' number. Good work! I must admit that Mark with his never ending river of words and endless quoting certainly makes a prodigious effort to white wash Pope Francis rather fantastic papacy. While Mark may be appreciated in the Vatican he is not being helpful to those of us who seek the truth. But if that were not enough he also accuses those who critique the Pope of sinful behavior such as calumny and detraction. I think Mark really belongs at the National Catholic Reporter where he would have a ready audience for his papal smokescreen and various other image enhancement for Pope Francis.
Vox-permitting, I would like to counter Johnno's claims against me.
Johnno, you accused me of having misrepresented Ann Barnhardt. I provided links to her columns, which, in turn, anybody could read to discern whether I presented her comments accurately.
It is undeniable that I presented accurately her comments in question.
Johnno, here are the facts. I said the following:
1. Ann Barnhardt said that Pope Francis is not Pope..."Bergoglio is a flagrant blaspheming heretic", according to Ann Barnhardt.
2. Pope Francis is an anti-Pope.
3. She has gone to "Mass and received Holy Communion...from a priest in a community 100% in unity with the See of Peter. Antipope Bergoglio was commemorated in the Canon."
4. Despite going to said Mass, she declared: "...the commemoration of him as Pope in the Canon is either ILLICIT, or MISTAKEN (her emphases).
5. She insisted that "for me to receive Holy Communion in a Mass in which I know that Bergoglio has been commemorated as Pope is NOT (her emphasis) an act of hypocrisy on my part."
Here is the link to Ann Barnhardt's comments in question.
Ann Barnhardt said: "It is now clear to me, and I feel it morally incumbent upon me given my position to publicly state that I believe Jorge Bergoglio, “Francis” to be an Antipope, never having been canonically elected, and that Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI is still the Roman Pontiff."
"Bergoglio is a flagrant blaspheming heretic."
-- Yep...I told the truth in regard to my first and second claims. Ann Barnhardt declared that Pope Francis is an Anti-Pope and flagrant blaspheming heretic.
Okay...to continue...
Ann Barnhardt said: "I believe that Pope Benedict XVI Ratzinger is still the Roman Pontiff and thus the See of Peter is occupied and has been all along, and I am still very much in the Church, and went to Mass and received Holy Communion this morning from a priest in a community 100% in unity with the See of Peter.
"Antipope Bergoglio was commemorated in the Canon, and I know this not because I could hear it (obviously – the Canon is said silently in the Venerable Gregorian Rite), but because I have specifically discussed this with the priest who offered the Sacrifice, and I know his position vis-a-vis Bergoglio as of 24 hours previous."
"If my position on Bergoglio is correct, which I obviously believe that it is, what this means is that the commemoration of him as Pope in the Canon is either ILLICIT, or MISTAKEN (her emphases)".
Yep...I told the truth in points 3 and 4.
To continue...
Ann Barnhardt said: "Further, I have been assured in the strongest possible terms that for me to receive Holy Communion in a Mass in which I know that Bergoglio has been commemorated as Pope is NOT an act of hypocrisy on my part."
Yep...I told the truth in regard to that point.
Therefore, my five points about Ann Barnhardt were 100 percent truthful. She claimed...
-- Pope Francis is not Pope.
-- Pope Francis is a heretic and blasphemer.
-- Despite being a schismatic, she assisted at a Mass where Pope Francis was commemorated as Pope, despite her schismatic rejection of his authority...and she said that she's free to receive Holy Communion in good faith.
-- She insists that the holy Roman Canon contains an "illicit" prayer.
Johnno, why on earth did you claim that I misrepresented Ann Barnhardt? It is undeniable that you are wrong.
With Vox's permission, I would like to continue my response to Johnno's claim that I misrepresented Ann Barnhardt.
I stated that Ann Barnhardt said..."I believe Bergoglio is a Diabolical Narcissist...But DN is EVERYWHERE in the Church, including Traddyland. The big tell amongst Trads is hyper liturgical fetishism."
I also stated that Ann Barnhardt warned that "Traddyland" has serious issues that pertain to "Trads" who are protective of the TLM as well as homosexuals who are attracted to the TLM.
I provided the following links to Ann Barnhardt's columns in support of the above.
Johnno, I will quote Ann Barnhardt in full to determine whether I misrepresented her bizarre claims.
Ann Barnhardt:
"I believe Bergoglio is a Diabolical Narcissist and is actually at war with God. All of the signs and tells are there – by the man’s own words.
"But DN is EVERYWHERE in the Church, including Traddyland. The big tell amongst Trads is hyper liturgical fetishism. I’m all about excellence in liturgy, but when you see people raging and throwing shit-fits over how many inches a priest moves his hand when blessing a cruet, or some such, RED. FLIPPING. FLAG."
Ann Barnhardt:
"Now, to part two of this essay, and I suspect this dynamic was indeed in play with this Brazilian Archbishop, and we have to be honest about these things. Is it utterly essential that orthodox, “traddy” Catholics face with manful virility the problems within their own ranks – specifically the presence of homosexual men that are attracted to the Traditional Mass not from any genuine religious belief, but due to Liturgical Fetishism.
"These men, nearly all of them homosexually oriented, are a massive scandal and are incredibly destructive – driving away heterosexual men and attracting more homosexual liturgical fetishists like themselves.
"This problem is, as far as I can tell, a far greater problem in Europe than it is in North America. Traddyland in Europe is largely an ARISTOCRATIC, UPPER-CLASS phenomenon.
"In North America, it is exactly the opposite – American traddyland skews decidedly to the “peasant” culture.
"In many American trad parishes, the women are often mistaken for Mennonites out in the world, with their ankle-length jumpers, long hair, veils worn in the “babushka” way,and non-use of cosmetics.
"I always stand out in Trad parishes in North America because I tend to wear “sharp” outfits, heels, make-up, and I wear my veil in the European “bridal” way – swept back behind my shoulders – or I wear a sharp hat to cover my head."
Johnno...what were you saying about my having misrepresented Ann Barnhardt?
-- A woman, who by having declared that His Holiness Pope Francis is not Pope, has placed herself above Holy Mother Church.
-- She has reserved for herself the right to determine who is Pope. Therefore, she has placed herself against God and the authority that he alone granted to His bishops to teach, govern, and sanctify the People of God.
-- A woman who claims has issued the grave charge that the holy, orthodox Roman Canon of the Mass contains an "illicit" prayer.
-- A woman who, despite being schismatic, and in defiance of God, insists that she is free to receive Holy Communion in good faith at a Catholic Mass.
-- She insists that "Traddyland" has a serious problem with a homosexual infiltration as the TLM attracts homosexuals.
-- She has denounced the attention to detail that Traditional Catholics have in regard to the TLM.
-- She denounced such Traditional Catholics as "Liturgical Fetishists".
-- She denounced Traditional Catholic women who dress modestly.
Ann Barnhardt's exact words:
"In many American trad parishes, the women are often mistaken for Mennonites out in the world, with their ankle-length jumpers, long hair, veils worn in the “babushka” way,and non-use of cosmetics.
"I always stand out in Trad parishes in North America because I tend to wear “sharp” outfits, heels, make-up, and I wear my veil in the European “bridal” way – swept back behind my shoulders – or I wear a sharp hat to cover my head."
Ann Barnhardt...in her very own words.
Good luck to Johnno and others who have thrown in with Ann Barnhardt.
Michael Dowd said..."Johnno has Mark Thomas' number. Good work!"
No, poor work. He failed to present one bit of commentary from Ann Barnhardt to refute that which I had posted about her.
I posted her claims. I quoted her precisely. I quoted her in full. It is undeniable that I did not misrepresent her bizarre claims.
Very, very poor work by Johnno.
To Ann Barnhardt's defenders: Good luck defending her schismatic, anti-Catholic declarations. Good luck defending her claim that the Roman Canon contains an "illicit" prayer. Good luck defending her stance that she has the right to reject Holy Mother Church's election of Pope Francis.
Good luck defending her defiance of God, who authorized His Church to teach Ann Barnhardt.
Good luck defending a woman who has placed herself above God.
Good luck attempting to pretend that Ann Barhardt did not say the very things that she said.
31 comments:
No, I'm afraid he won't & neither will his supporters within the Hierarchy. Just like ISIS they must be severely dealt with. Canon Law has not been effective to date but really has enough study gone into whether he is, in fact, a true pope either by his dubious election or the fact that he most probably was a heretic before being elected? It would seem not, as the whole Hierarchy is embroiled in Modernism & won't budge. Mental & emotional pressure must be continually applied & the CDF must make Canon Law effective for both the future election of Popes & the outing of bad Popes whether technically heretical or just a severe impediment to the Catholic faith.
Tragically, the Pope will not listen. As Mrs. Muggeridge said in her excellent tome, The Desolate City, the leadership that is now operational in the church carried out a revolution along the lines of Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez.
The only difference is that the revolution within the church doesn't evince any directly connectable bloodshed...the violence is psychological,spiritual and emotional.
Even more tragically, Francis has packed the College of Cardinals with a majority of novus ordo revolutionaries.
As as Franklin Roosevelt packed the Supreme Court with his sycophants and like minded justices...so to has Francis packed the Curiae and the voting Cardinals.
A number of his fellow revolutionaries are now in position to become Pope.
The Philippine Cardinal aka The Francis of Asia is only 54 and could do decades of damage just as Chief Justice John Roberts has done.
We must pray for a traditional morality Pope to assume command and clean up the Aegean Stables.
Fr. Luigi Villa published a book that stalled the beatification process for Montini ("Paul VI Beatified?). Word made it back to him (Fr. Villa) that the ecclesiastical authorities would ignore him as best they could, and wait until he died, and then carry on with the plans to canonize Paul VI. Fr. Villa made this known before he passed away. He died a couple of years ago, in his 90s, and wouldn't you know that within weeks the push was made once again to raise Montini to the altars. My hunch is that Fr. Buenos Aires will have a fit with this 'plea' as he did with the infamous letter from the 13 cardinals but ultimately will ignore it.
Save for a miracle of grace the answer is no. My guess the Pope's thoughts will be on how best to punish these Traditionalist termites.
Michael, one of his minions has already tried, he failed. They will all fail.
The rule enunciated by Saint Paul admits an important exception. Authors teach that the admonition required by the Apostle of Gentiles is aimed at making it clear to the sinner that he is denying a truth of the faith, that is, a truth that cannot be denied under any pretext whatsoever. There are cases when such mistakes cannot take place. There are cases in which the heretic obviously knows that the truth he is denying or casting into doubt is a truth of the faith. For example, one cannot admit that a scholar of theology does not know that the Virginity of Our Lady is a dogma, or that the conciliar "popes" are/were ignorant of the heresies they teach/taught.
De Lugo: "Also in the external forum, a previous admonition and reprimand is not always required to punish someone as heretical and pertinacious; nor is such requirement always admitted in the practice of the Holy Office. For if it can be ascertained in some other way, given the defendant’s qualities, obvious doctrinal knowledge and other circumstances, that he could not be unaware that his doctrine was opposed to the Church’s, by this very fact he will be considered a heretic... The reason for this is clear, for external admonition can only serve to make the person in error become aware of the opposition existing between his error and the doctrine of the Church. If he knows the subject much more through books and conciliar definitions than he could through the words of his admonisher, there is no reason to require another admonition for him to become pertinacious against the Church." (de Lugo, Disputationes, 2:disp. XX, sect. IV, no. 157-158). See also Antonius Diana, Resolutiones Morales (Venice: Franc. Baba, 1635), pars IV, tract. VII, resol. 36; Vermeersch, 3:245; Noldin, Compl. de Poenis Eccl., 21; Regatillo, 2:508 .)
Fosterers of Heresy:
Fosterers of heresy “are those who, by some act or omission, do heretics a favor that helps promote the heretical doctrine.” (Wernz-Vidal, 7:450.)
The favoring of heresy by omission:
They favor the heretic who, by virtue of their office, are obliged to arrest, punish, or expel him, and yet neglect these duties. For example, the judges to whom a bishop or Inquisitors resort, or to whom they deliver a heretic to be punished; and also the Inquisitors and ecclesiastical prelates themselves, if they neglect what they are obliged to do by virtue of their office and thus favor heresy. The same should be said of the other ministers and officials of the Holy Office and even of the private person on whom this office is imposed by those who have the power to impose it; and also of the witnesses who, obliged to say the truth when legitimately interrogated, hide it to favor a heretic.
(de Lugo, 2:disp. XXV, sect. 1, no. 6. In the same sense one can read Suarez, De Fide, 12:disp. XXIV, sect. 1, no. 6; Schmalzgrueber, tom. V, 9:no. 94.)
Defenders of Heretics:
Defenders “are those who do not internally adhere to the heretical doctrine but in spite of that defend it in word or in writing against those who attack it. They are also those who protect, by force or by other unjust means, the persons of heretics against a legitimate persecution carried out on account of the heresy.” (Wernz-Vidal, 7:451.)
The answer to your question Vox is no. Because the appeal is being made by people PF considers "ultra conservatives" who according to him say no to everything and the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. He is most obstinate and arrogant and barring a miracle will not change the path he is on.
Maranatha Lord Jesus
In June 2014 A.D., Bishop Athanasius Schneider said the following in regard to His Holiness Pope Francis:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/06/bishop-athanasius-schneider-in-england.html
"He has spoken until now, in his official homilies, very beautiful Catholic doctrine. I hope he will continue to teach in very clear manner the Catholic doctrine."
In June 2014 A.D., one traditionalist after another insisted that Pope Francis was a heretic. In particular, Traditionalists almost daily commented upon Pope Francis homilies, which they insisted were filled with, controversy, confusion, and heresy.
However, Bishop Schneider contradicted traditionalists dramatically as he insisted that the Holy Father's homilies were clear and filled with "very beautiful Catholic doctrine".
In June 2014 A.D., Rorate Caeli said the following in regard to Pope Francis and Catholic Social Teaching:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/06/truth-be-told-pope-francis-more-often.html
"Very few indeed have been making the case, a case that is true, that the positions stated by Pope Francis on economic and social matters are much closer to the Traditional Catholic position on the economy and the State than not."
"Indeed, it can be said unhesitatingly that this is one area in which the Pope will find mostly allies in Traditional Catholics."
In June 2014 A.D., one traditionalist after another insisted that Pope Francis' Social Teachings were not Catholic. Instead, traditionalists insisted that Pope Francis' Social Teachings were filled with communist heresy.
But Rorate Caeli said otherwise.
Considering that His Holiness Pope Francis has not changed his teachings from June 2014 A.D. to date, Bishop Schneider and Rorate Caeli, via their statements in question, would find it difficult to flip-flop on that which they had said about Pope Francis in 2014 A.D.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
God has been speaking for approx 6000 years and C Jorge hasn't listened to his word. We have a Judas Pope, full of pride and self love. The bride of Christ is on the cross, may we fall to our knees and ask the lord for this bitter cup to pass...
His Holiness Pope Francis has demonstrated that he will accept criticism that is fair, and even strong, and change his ways in the face of fair criticism.
Pope Francis has demonstrated that in major fashion.
Pope Francis conducted an interview with America Magazine. The interview was published online on September 19, 2013 A.D. In regard to abortion, homosexual unions, and contraception, Pope Francis said the following:
"I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that."
The National Abortion Rights Action League, believing, incredibly, that Pope Francis was one of the them, misrepresented his statement, then proceed to print the following to their Facebook page and Twitter page:
"Dear Pope Francis, thank you. Signed, prochoice women everywhere".
The following day, Pope Francis issued a powerful attack against abortion.
http://www.lifenews.com/2013/09/20/pope-francis-slams-abortion-in-new-comments-unborn-babies-unjustly-condemned/
-- "Pope Francis Slams Abortion in New Comments:"
=================================================================================
From the first weeks of his Pontificate, Pope Francis' Culture of Life credentials were unmistakable. Example:
On May 12, 2013 A.D., Hilary White reported the following story (this is video as well):
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-surprises-40000-italian-pro-lifers-joins-rome-march-for-life
-- Pope surprises, delights 40,000 Italian pro-lifers, joins March for Life
ROME, May 12, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) – "Pope Francis surprised about 40,000 Italian and international participants in today’s Marcia per la Vita (March for Life) Internazionale in Rome this morning, when he left the Apostolic Palace to greet them personally from his popemobile in the street where they were lined up."
Although there was any doubt about his defense of and support for the Culture of Life, Pope Francis responded to the "reprimand" that he had received for not having "spoken much about these things" (abortion, homosexual unions, and contraception).
From September 20, 2013 A.D. to date, he has spoken on many occasions against abortion, homosexual unions, and contraception.
Pope Francis acknowledged his "reprimand" in question. In humble fashion, he accepted criticism directed at him and corrected the situation in question.
Therefore, Pope Francis, in major fashion, has demonstrated that he has the humility to accept and respond well to fair criticism of his ways.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Well...either Mark Thomas' approach to viewing the happenings in Rome or Ms. Barnhardt's is closest to the truth. Time will tell...
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/07/19/on-why-diabolical-narcissists-like-hillary-clinton-want-to-get-caught-and-it-isnt-for-the-reason-you-think/
These days one begins to doubt what would be better: The Vatican to continue under this pontificate, or to be destroyed by Islamists.
"pelagians" and "fundamentalists", said Pope Francis.
Mark Thomas: Therefore, Pope Francis, in major fashion, has demonstrated that he has the humility to accept and respond well to fair criticism of his ways.
The June 28 conversation was with journalist Joaquín Morales Solá, who writes for La Nacion in Argentina. It was Morales who used the word “ultra-conservative” to describe internal resistance to the pope, and Francis said he “rejects conflict” with them.
“They do their job, and I do mine,” the pope said.
“I want a Church that is open, understanding, that accompanies wounded families,” he said. “They say no to everything. I go ahead, without looking over my shoulder.”
Yet with what Morales described as a “wide smile,” the pontiff continued: “Nails are removed by applying pressure to the top … or, you set them aside to rest when the age of retirement arrives.”
In regard to Wolverine's reference to Ann Barnhardt:
I feel sad for Ann Barnhardt. I don't recall having know anything about her until a couple of weeks ago when I read something about her (and commented about it) on Vox's blog.
My understanding is that she converted a few years ago from Protestantism. It is obvious that she is unfamiliar with various Catholic teachings...or she is aware but rejects various teachings.
-- Ann Barnhardt speaks in vicious, hateful tones that are contrary to the teaching of the Holy Catholic Church. She is either unfamiliar with or rejects #2477, 2478, 2479 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
-- She has a false, very deficient and disturbing, anti-Catholic understanding of the Holy Mass as evidence by the following column that she published last month:
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/06/19/vocem-alienorum-the-voice-of-antipope-francis-bergoglio-is-the-voice-of-a-stranger/
In that column, Ann Barnhardt declared the following:
1. His Holiness Pope Francis is not Pope. "Bergoglio is a flagrant blaspheming heretic", according to Ann Barnhardt.
2. Pope Francis is an anti-Pope.
3. Although she is schismatic, Ann Barnhardt declared that she has gone to "Mass and received Holy Communion...from a priest in a community 100% in unity with the See of Peter. Antipope Bergoglio was commemorated in the Canon."
4. However, she declared the following about Masses at which the priest commemorates Pope Francis during the Canon:
"...the commemoration of him as Pope in the Canon is either ILLICIT, or MISTAKEN (her emphases).
That is a grave and false charge that a Catholic cannot possible accept.
5. She insisted that "for me to receive Holy Communion in a Mass in which I know that Bergoglio has been commemorated as Pope is NOT (her emphasis) an act of hypocrisy on my part."
She is a very, very confused woman. Confused to the point where she makes horrific, unorthodox, schismatic comments about Holy Mass and Pope Francis.
As I noted last month on Vox's blog, the True Church teaches, of course, that during Mass, the Faithful are united with God's priest and the priest's prayers, which, in turn, are the True Church's official liturgical prayers.
That, for example, is reflected in #93 of Pope Venerable Pius XII's Encyclical Mediator Dei, he noted the following:
"The people unite their hearts in praise, impetration, expiation and thanksgiving
with the prayers or intention of the priest, even of the High Priest himself..."
However, Ann Barnhardt has rejected that unity with God's priest as she has rejected the priest's prayer during the sacred Canon that commemorates His Holiness Pope Francis.
Even more horrific is that Ann Barnhardt attacked the validity of the True Church's sacred Canon of the Mass when she declared that the sacred Canon contains an "illicit" prayer — the commemoration of Pope Francis.
Ann Barnhardt is a very, very confused, schismatic who has offered horrific, false declarations about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
To anybody who supports Ann Barnhardt...well, that's your business. Good luck attempting to square her anti-Catholic understanding of Catholicism with God's Truth and His Holy Catholic Religion.
Conversely, I reject Ann Barnhardt's false declarations about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I reject her false and vicious comments about the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis.
I pray that Ann Barnhardt will depart the anti-Catholic world of schism that she has embraced.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas: "Therefore, Pope Francis, in major fashion, has demonstrated that he has the humility to accept and respond well to fair criticism of his ways."
Pope Francis: Slyly smiling, "Nails are removed by applying pressure to the top … or, you set them aside to rest when the age of retirement arrives."
Conclusion: Pope Francis will get rid of whoever disagrees with him. He is vindictive, not humble.
Wolverine referenced Ann Barnhardt:
Here are some attacks that Ann Barnhardt, a schismatic, has lodged against Traditional Catholics who, Deo gratias, love the TLM and wish to protect the TLM against liturgical abuse.
Ann Barnhardt said..."I believe Bergoglio is a Diabolical Narcissist...But DN is EVERYWHERE in the Church, including Traddyland. The big tell amongst Trads is hyper liturgical fetishism."
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/05/08/anns-latest-at-the-remnant-diabolical-narcissism-why-princes-betray-their-king/
Here is an additional link to an Ann Barnhardt column in which she again warned that "Traddyland" has serious issues that pertain to "Trads" who are protective of the TLM as well as homosexuals who are attracted to the TLM.
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/07/06/chop-bergoglio-beheads-another-and-a-warning-about-liturgical-fetishists-wolves-in-jacquard-and-lace/
Does she enjoy any...any...support among Traditional Catholics? Are there any Catholics, other than Ann Barnhardt, who employ the term unfortunate term "Traddyland"?
That is the type of condescending term that TLM opponents would use.
Pax
Mark Thomas
His Holiness Pope Francis to journalist Joaquín Morales Solá:
"I don’t cut off heads. That was never my style." An additional indication of Pope Francis' humble approach to life.
Thank you for having referenced the above interview as that just spurred the following memory: A fierce critic of Pope Francis testified to Pope Francis' humility.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/11/pope-personally-calls-traditional.html
Mario Palmaro (Requiescat in pace...2014 A.D.) was an Italian traditional Catholic writer and journalist who published articles that criticized heavily Pope Francis.
Pope Francis, despite having been attacked verbally by Mario Palmaro, telephoned Mario Palmaro.
"Pope Francis told me that he was very close to me, having learned of my health condition, of my grave illness, and I clearly noticed his deep empathy, the attention for a person as such, beyond ideas and opinions, while I live through a time of trial and suffering."
"I was astonished, amazed, above all moved: for me, as a Catholic, that which I was experiencing was one of the most beautiful experiences in my life."
"But I felt the duty to remind the Pope that I, together with Gnocchi, had expressed specific criticisms regarding his work, while I renewed my total fidelity [to him] as a son of the Church.
"The Pope almost did not let me finish the sentence, saying that he had understood that those criticisms had been made with love, and how important it had been for him to receive them." [These words] "comforted me greatly."
=================================================================================
What beautiful testimony, from a man who had criticized Pope Francis, to Pope Francis' humility and love. Despite his having been bashed, Pope Francis expressed his brotherly love to his critic in question.
Blessed are the peacemakers...such as His Holiness Pope Francis.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
His Holiness Pope Francis to journalist Joaquín Morales Solá:
"I don’t cut off heads. That was never my style." An additional indication of Pope Francis' humble approach to life.
Thank you for having referenced the above interview as that just spurred the following memory: A fierce critic of Pope Francis testified to Pope Francis' humility.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/11/pope-personally-calls-traditional.html
Mario Palmaro (Requiescat in pace...2014 A.D.) was an Italian traditional Catholic writer and journalist who published articles that criticized heavily Pope Francis.
Pope Francis, despite having been attacked verbally by Mario Palmaro, telephoned Mario Palmaro.
"Pope Francis told me that he was very close to me, having learned of my health condition, of my grave illness, and I clearly noticed his deep empathy, the attention for a person as such, beyond ideas and opinions, while I live through a time of trial and suffering."
"I was astonished, amazed, above all moved: for me, as a Catholic, that which I was experiencing was one of the most beautiful experiences in my life."
"But I felt the duty to remind the Pope that I, together with Gnocchi, had expressed specific criticisms regarding his work, while I renewed my total fidelity [to him] as a son of the Church.
"The Pope almost did not let me finish the sentence, saying that he had understood that those criticisms had been made with love, and how important it had been for him to receive them." [These words] "comforted me greatly."
=================================================================================
What beautiful testimony from a Mario Palmaro, a man who had criticized Pope Francis. Despite his having been criticized heavily, Pope Francis maintained his humility, as well as his love and concern for his brother in Jesus Christ, Mario Palmaro.
Blessed are the peacemakers...such as His Holiness Pope Francis.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Michael Dowd said..."Pope Francis will get rid of whoever disagrees with him."
Let us examine your claim.
A great many Traditionalists insist that the SSPX is a massive thorn in Rome's side as the SSPX reminds "modernist" Rome of her (Rome's) past. The narrative also states that the SSPX's presence within the Church prevents "modernist" Rome from going all-out to inflict apostasy upon the Church.
In 2013 A.D., when he was elected Pope, His Holiness Pope Francis inherited an SSPX that was despised throughout the Church. Conservatives were outraged that the SSPX had "rejected" Pope Benedict XVI's "deal" to regularize the Society.
Father John Zuhlsdorf, who speaks for many conservatives, at the end of Pope Benedict XVI's Pontificate (near the beginning, obviously, of Pope Francis' reign), signified the following disgusting conservative outrage at the SSPX:
"I have written time and again that the SSPX was going to wake up one day and experience the business end of the stick.
"The membership of the SSPX should converge on Rome this week. They should, all together, crawl on hands and knees across St. Peter’s Square and beg the Pope to admit them to his presence. They should implore the Pope to let them kiss his shoe, accept their promises of obedience, and the regularize them before he resigns."
Liberals, of course, despised the SSPX. (To date, that hasn't changed...much.)
Pope Benedict XVI noted the shocking and tremendous hatred within the Church that, sadly, existed against the SSPX:
"And should we not admit that some unpleasant things have also emerged in Church circles? At times one gets the impression that our society needs to have at least one group to which no tolerance may be shown; which one can easily attack and hate."
That was the situation that the SSPX faced on all sides within the Church when Pope Francis assumed the Throne of Saint Peter. One traditionalist after another insisted that "heretical" Pope Francis would, once and for all, crush the SSPX via excommunication to rid the Church of the modernists' greatest enemy, the SSPX.
Conservatives and liberals hoped that Pope Francis would crush the SSPX.
Even as late as September 2014 A.D., traditionalist Louie Verrecchio insisted that Pope Francis would crush the SSPX.
https://akacatholic.com/thoughts-on-upcoming-sspx-meeting-in-rome/
Given that he would have enjoyed massive support within the Church, why didn't Pope Francis crush the SSPX, who resist fiercely heretics, such as the supposed "heretic" Pope Francis?
After all, you said that "Pope Francis will get rid of whoever disagrees with him".
Why did the (supposedly) vicious, hateful, satanic, heretical, anti-TLM, anti-Tradition Pope Francis not only refuse to "get rid" of the SSPX, the most powerful thorn in his modernist side....
...but he did the opposite. He has established beyond all doubt that the SSPX is Catholic. He has praised the SSPX. He declared that Catholics attached to SSPX chapels are "faithful" Catholics. He has positioned the SSPX to obtain regularization from Rome.
Again, what happened to the claim that "Pope Francis will get rid of whoever disagrees with him"?
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Hi Mark Thomas.
If I were Pope Francis I would certainly want to rein in SSPX by inviting them to the party so to speak. By doing this he would effectively render them silent just like all the rest of the clergy and yourself, come to think of it. As is said, " Keep your friends close but your enemies closer."
Michael Dowd,
Why would His Holiness Pope Francis desire to "rein in" and render "silent" the SSPX? Why did you float that notion when that contradicts the good will that Pope Francis, going back to his days in Argentina, has for years exhibited toward the SSPX?
Your notion makes a liar out of Pope Francis. Your idea portrays Pope Francis as an evil, dishonest man in regard to his attitude and dealings with the SSPX.
Conversely, Bishop Fellay has portrayed Pope Francis' relationship with the SSPX as one of Christ-like care of his (Pope Francis') SSPX flock. Bishop Fellay has made it clear that from Pope Francis' days in Argentina to date, His Holiness has recognized the SSPX as Catholic.
Pope Francis/Cardinal Bergoglio/Archbishop Bergoglio has always supported the SSPX, according to Bishop Fellay.
I don't mean the following in any nasty sense...and nothing personal...
...when it comes to discerning Pope Francis' relationship and dealings with the SSPX, I believe that Bishop Fellay, rather than you, is the expert.
Therefore, based upon Bishop Fellay's comments in regard to how, over years and years, Pope Francis has viewed and worked with the SSPX, I have confidence that Pope Francis is the SSPX's friend. Pope Francis has the SSPX's best interests at heart.
That is what I've learned from Bishop Fellay.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Michael Dowd said..."As is said, " Keep your friends close but your enemies closer."
Your premise is flawed as Bishop Fellay has made it clear that His Holiness Pope Francis does not view the SSPX as an enemy. In turn, Bishop Fellay has made it clear that the SSPX does not view Pope Francis as an enemy. Pope Francis and Bishop Fellay/SSPX are brothers in Jesus Christ.
As a Christian, you should celebrate and promote that. Correct?
As a Christian, you shouldn't assign double-dealing, evil motives to Pope Francis and his relationship with the SSPX. Correct?
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
#2478: "To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor's thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way: Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another's statement than to condemn it."
#2479: "Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one's neighbor. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity."
Rather than concoct and assign dishonest motives to Pope Francis' dealings with the SSPX, we, as Christians, must pray and work in positive fashion to advance peace between Rome and the SSPX.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I see Mark Thomas is still playing his little games of selectively quoting and misappropriating context not only with regards to pope Francis but Ann Barnhardt as well.
I recommend everyone head over to the links he's posted and actually read what Ann Barnhardt actually said rather than reading it through Mark Thomas' interpretation and misleading statements intended to poison your perception. The joke is that Mark Thomas bases this solely on Anne's use of the word 'Traddyland' to make it out as if she doesn't like TLM or TLM Catholics. Actually Anne just has fun-ribbing rhetorical style when she speaks or writes. And if you actually read what she's said in the articles it will make sense as to why she exposes a little known fact where abusive narcissistic priests are not only found in the Novus Ordo but also amongst the Traditional mass priests and for an interesting reason.
The same can be said for Mark Thomas' cherry-picking attempts to paint Pope Francis as some kind of 'humble' man who just has the Church's best interests at heart. The fact is that Pope Francis will in fact actually say something Catholic when it comes to abortion or homosexuality at times depending on his audience, but then go on to showcase what a hypocrite fork tongued man he is by his actions and all his buddies he cozies up with and strategically brings in whether it's abortionists like Jeffrey Sachs and clearly cheerleading the UN's depopulation agenda by hilariously claiming that the Vatican is only supporting the other half of the initiative to eradicate poverty. Much the same Francis applies when he imagines he can honor baby-killers in public for their other side-works.
Pope Francis is either a fraud, or actually suffers some mental illness where his mouth doesn't know what his hands are doing. And Mark Thomas is trying to apply lipstick to a pig in his attempts to whitewash the Pope's character.
That Mark Thomas even refers to Mario Palmaro's gushing is hilarious. It's not really a surprise to anyone that Pope Francis intends to try and put on the public act of humility like the pharisees praying loudly. Actual humility would be the Pope actually learning from Palmaro's criticism and implements changes to what he does. He doesn't. And men like Palmaro will continue to attempt to appeal to this feigned humility and false character of the Pope in desperation so that he might listen and understand. But he won't as has been clearly seen and as evidenced by the Pope's own words that Mark Thomas will never quote here where Pope Francis says he doesn't care what people think, he'll do what he wants, and he'll hammer down whoever needs to be hammered. And if the Pope doesn't want to do the dirty deeds himself, he has numerous henchmen he appoints to carry out the work of the devil for him.
Actually, Bp. Fellay said Bergoglio is a "genuine modernist" and St. Pius X said modernism is the synthesis of all heresies.
Johnno has Mark Thomas' number. Good work! I must admit that Mark with his never ending river of words and endless quoting certainly makes a prodigious effort to white wash Pope Francis rather fantastic papacy. While Mark may be appreciated in the Vatican he is not being helpful to those of us who seek the truth. But if that were not enough he also accuses those who critique the Pope of sinful behavior such as calumny and detraction. I think Mark really belongs at the National Catholic Reporter where he would have a ready audience for his papal smokescreen and various other image enhancement for Pope Francis.
Part 1 of 2.
Vox-permitting, I would like to counter Johnno's claims against me.
Johnno, you accused me of having misrepresented Ann Barnhardt. I provided links to her columns, which, in turn, anybody could read to discern whether I presented her comments accurately.
It is undeniable that I presented accurately her comments in question.
Johnno, here are the facts. I said the following:
1. Ann Barnhardt said that Pope Francis is not Pope..."Bergoglio is a flagrant blaspheming heretic", according to Ann Barnhardt.
2. Pope Francis is an anti-Pope.
3. She has gone to "Mass and received Holy Communion...from a priest in a community 100% in unity with the See of Peter. Antipope Bergoglio was commemorated in the Canon."
4. Despite going to said Mass, she declared: "...the commemoration of him as Pope in the Canon is either ILLICIT, or MISTAKEN (her emphases).
5. She insisted that "for me to receive Holy Communion in a Mass in which I know that Bergoglio has been commemorated as Pope is NOT (her emphasis) an act of hypocrisy on my part."
Here is the link to Ann Barnhardt's comments in question.
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/06/19/vocem-alienorum-the-voice-of-antipope-francis-bergoglio-is-the-voice-of-a-stranger/
In part 2, I will quote Ann Barnhardt in full to determine whether I told the truth about Ann Barnhardt.
Either I'm right or Johnno is right. Ann Barnhardt's very words will settle the argument.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Part 2 of 2...with Vox's permission...
Johnno, let us examine Ann Barnhardt's words to determine whether I misrepsented her as you have claimed.
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/06/19/vocem-alienorum-the-voice-of-antipope-francis-bergoglio-is-the-voice-of-a-stranger/
Ann Barnhardt said: "It is now clear to me, and I feel it morally incumbent upon me given my position to publicly state that I believe Jorge Bergoglio, “Francis” to be an Antipope, never having been canonically elected, and that Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI is still the Roman Pontiff."
"Bergoglio is a flagrant blaspheming heretic."
-- Yep...I told the truth in regard to my first and second claims. Ann Barnhardt declared that Pope Francis is an Anti-Pope and flagrant blaspheming heretic.
Okay...to continue...
Ann Barnhardt said: "I believe that Pope Benedict XVI Ratzinger is still the Roman Pontiff and thus the See of Peter is occupied and has been all along, and I am still very much in the Church, and went to Mass and received Holy Communion this morning from a priest in a community 100% in unity with the See of Peter.
"Antipope Bergoglio was commemorated in the Canon, and I know this not because I could hear it (obviously – the Canon is said silently in the Venerable Gregorian Rite), but because I have specifically discussed this with the priest who offered the Sacrifice, and I know his position vis-a-vis Bergoglio as of 24 hours previous."
"If my position on Bergoglio is correct, which I obviously believe that it is, what this means is that the commemoration of him as Pope in the Canon is either ILLICIT, or MISTAKEN (her emphases)".
Yep...I told the truth in points 3 and 4.
To continue...
Ann Barnhardt said: "Further, I have been assured in the strongest possible terms that for me to receive Holy Communion in a Mass in which I know that Bergoglio has been commemorated as Pope is NOT an act of hypocrisy on my part."
Yep...I told the truth in regard to that point.
Therefore, my five points about Ann Barnhardt were 100 percent truthful. She claimed...
-- Pope Francis is not Pope.
-- Pope Francis is a heretic and blasphemer.
-- Despite being a schismatic, she assisted at a Mass where Pope Francis was commemorated as Pope, despite her schismatic rejection of his authority...and she said that she's free to receive Holy Communion in good faith.
-- She insists that the holy Roman Canon contains an "illicit" prayer.
Johnno, why on earth did you claim that I misrepresented Ann Barnhardt? It is undeniable that you are wrong.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
With Vox's permission, I would like to continue my response to Johnno's claim that I misrepresented Ann Barnhardt.
I stated that Ann Barnhardt said..."I believe Bergoglio is a Diabolical Narcissist...But DN is EVERYWHERE in the Church, including Traddyland. The big tell amongst Trads is hyper liturgical fetishism."
I also stated that Ann Barnhardt warned that "Traddyland" has serious issues that pertain to "Trads" who are protective of the TLM as well as homosexuals who are attracted to the TLM.
I provided the following links to Ann Barnhardt's columns in support of the above.
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/05/08/anns-latest-at-the-remnant-diabolical-narcissism-why-princes-betray-their-king/
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/07/06/chop-bergoglio-beheads-another-and-a-warning-about-liturgical-fetishists-wolves-in-jacquard-and-lace/
Johnno, I will quote Ann Barnhardt in full to determine whether I misrepresented her bizarre claims.
Ann Barnhardt:
"I believe Bergoglio is a Diabolical Narcissist and is actually at war with God. All of the signs and tells are there – by the man’s own words.
"But DN is EVERYWHERE in the Church, including Traddyland. The big tell amongst Trads is hyper liturgical fetishism. I’m all about excellence in liturgy, but when you see people raging and throwing shit-fits over how many inches a priest moves his hand when blessing a cruet, or some such, RED. FLIPPING. FLAG."
Ann Barnhardt:
"Now, to part two of this essay, and I suspect this dynamic was indeed in play with this Brazilian Archbishop, and we have to be honest about these things. Is it utterly essential that orthodox, “traddy” Catholics face with manful virility the problems within their own ranks – specifically the presence of homosexual men that are attracted to the Traditional Mass not from any genuine religious belief, but due to Liturgical Fetishism.
"These men, nearly all of them homosexually oriented, are a massive scandal and are incredibly destructive – driving away heterosexual men and attracting more homosexual liturgical fetishists like themselves.
"This problem is, as far as I can tell, a far greater problem in Europe than it is in North America. Traddyland in Europe is largely an ARISTOCRATIC, UPPER-CLASS phenomenon.
"In North America, it is exactly the opposite – American traddyland skews decidedly to the “peasant” culture.
"In many American trad parishes, the women are often mistaken for Mennonites out in the world, with their ankle-length jumpers, long hair, veils worn in the “babushka” way,and non-use of cosmetics.
"I always stand out in Trad parishes in North America because I tend to wear “sharp” outfits, heels, make-up, and I wear my veil in the European “bridal” way – swept back behind my shoulders – or I wear a sharp hat to cover my head."
Johnno...what were you saying about my having misrepresented Ann Barnhardt?
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Johnno,
Good luck in having throw in with Ann Barnhardt.
You have thrown in with...
-- A schismatic.
-- A woman, who by having declared that His Holiness Pope Francis is not Pope, has placed herself above Holy Mother Church.
-- She has reserved for herself the right to determine who is Pope. Therefore, she has placed herself against God and the authority that he alone granted to His bishops to teach, govern, and sanctify the People of God.
-- A woman who claims has issued the grave charge that the holy, orthodox Roman Canon of the Mass contains an "illicit" prayer.
-- A woman who, despite being schismatic, and in defiance of God, insists that she is free to receive Holy Communion in good faith at a Catholic Mass.
-- She insists that "Traddyland" has a serious problem with a homosexual infiltration as the TLM attracts homosexuals.
-- She has denounced the attention to detail that Traditional Catholics have in regard to the TLM.
-- She denounced such Traditional Catholics as "Liturgical Fetishists".
-- She denounced Traditional Catholic women who dress modestly.
Ann Barnhardt's exact words:
"In many American trad parishes, the women are often mistaken for Mennonites out in the world, with their ankle-length jumpers, long hair, veils worn in the “babushka” way,and non-use of cosmetics.
"I always stand out in Trad parishes in North America because I tend to wear “sharp” outfits, heels, make-up, and I wear my veil in the European “bridal” way – swept back behind my shoulders – or I wear a sharp hat to cover my head."
Ann Barnhardt...in her very own words.
Good luck to Johnno and others who have thrown in with Ann Barnhardt.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Michael Dowd said..."Johnno has Mark Thomas' number. Good work!"
No, poor work. He failed to present one bit of commentary from Ann Barnhardt to refute that which I had posted about her.
I posted her claims. I quoted her precisely. I quoted her in full. It is undeniable that I did not misrepresent her bizarre claims.
Very, very poor work by Johnno.
To Ann Barnhardt's defenders: Good luck defending her schismatic, anti-Catholic declarations. Good luck defending her claim that the Roman Canon contains an "illicit" prayer. Good luck defending her stance that she has the right to reject Holy Mother Church's election of Pope Francis.
Good luck defending her defiance of God, who authorized His Church to teach Ann Barnhardt.
Good luck defending a woman who has placed herself above God.
Good luck attempting to pretend that Ann Barhardt did not say the very things that she said.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
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