"ADVENT EMBER SATURDAY" Traditional Latin Mass in the Archdiocese of Toronto

Sunday, 26 February 2017

SSPX and reconciliation

Without a doubt, their are firm opinions against the SSPX accepting some sort of regularisation in a canonical sense. 

I think we need to look at Holy Gamaliel, who, though a Pharisee, is considered a Saint and is in the Roman Martyrology. 

"And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." —Acts 5:38–39


Updated thoughts and repost ... 


  • The Society of St. Pius X is Catholic, it always has  been. The canonical recognition through a Personal Prelature is the correction of an injustice; -- the unjust excommunication of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the eventually remitted of the four bishops.
  • It is the correction of the unjust suspension of all the newly ordained priests.
  • It is the correction of the deep injustice of the suspension of Archbishop Lefebvre in the early 1970's for not agreeing to celebrate the Novus Ordo.
  • It is the correction of the injustice of the attempt by Rome to suppress a canonically founded and correctly Catholic seminary.
  • The sole purpose of the Society's existence is the formation and education of priests for the salvation of souls.
  • The Society is in a stronger and even more credible position now than when first suspended over four decades ago.
  • A regularisation would essentially return them to where they were prior to that initial suspension, except that they are in that stronger, more credible, more public reality than back then.
  • As long as they have protected their assets and their charism then they have a duty to accept the reasonable offer.
  • Failing to do so would leave them open to criticism and persecution by bishops throughout the world and the declaration of formal schism.
  • The Church and a future Pontiff have a greater chance of renouncing the errors of modernism and Vatican II with the Society of St. Pius X on the "inside" formally, than being an outside observer, at best.


Last September, 2016, I wrote about the SSPX and the ongoing and progressing talks with the Vatican on full reconciliation and that they had nothing to fear from Francis, provided they controlled their assets and structure. It was titled, "Show me the money." 

We've heard in the last day, that there is a real estate purchase about to take place in Rome for their headquarters.

I will repeat my opinion now as I did then. The Society has nothing to fear as long as it gives up nothing. No control over its assets, no interference in its charism.

SM_Immacolata_all’Esquilino_01I am one who has never accepted the schismatic argument. The Church, beginning under Paul VI and continuing under John Paul II created an injustice against the Society, its priests and religious, and of course, its bishops and the faithful attending its chapels and schools. Benedict XVI tried to remove the injustice and laid the groundwork with Summorum Pontificum and the lifting of the unjust excommunications. Francis seems to be prepared to finish the work.

Remember friends, Bishop Bernard Fellay is no fool.

Many questions why? Why is Francis doing this?

The fact is, it does not matter. What matters is, he is doing it and it is the work of the Holy Spirit, not his, "god of surprises." It is the work of the Holy Spirit because only good will come of it. Francis is, the Pope, and he is being dragged kicking and screaming to this reconciliation even if he does not recognize if for what it is. 

Only good will come of this.


SM_Immacolata_all’Esquilino_02

34 comments:

Paul Dale said...

I am sorry but I cannot agree with you here Vox. The SSPX leadership has already slid from the long held position of ++Lefebvre. No discussions until doctrine is resolved. Fellay is weak and vacillating. His interview with Tim Sebastien was painful in it's supineness. He goes tiptoeing around the red hats of Rome playing sorry little girl seeking the benediction of rotten carcass that is Rome. Where is that staunch condemnation of the worst papacy in history. Slowly they are losing their saltiness and going the same way as Campos which Fellay condemned in no uncertain terms. He even accepts 95% of Vatican II. I beg that at this late stage the priests will stand up and not go through with this appalling direction.

Petrus Romanus said...

The SSPX is repeating the mistakes of others that went before them, and contradicting their own words. Fellay himself in 2003 said "we have no intention of launching out until we are certain that Rome means to maintain Tradition. We need signs that they have converted…To guarantee our future, we must obtain from today’s Rome clear proof of its attachment to the Rome of yesterday." None of that is true in 2017. SSPX faithful are witnessing the Society's passion https://psalm129.wordpress.com

Liam Ronan said...

You stated opinion is: "...it is the work of the Holy Spirit, not his (i.e. Francis'), "god of surprises." It is the work of the Holy Spirit because only good will come of it..."

I should say that at best your take on this is wildly enthusiastic and overly confident of what moves events within and without the Church these days.

For my part, I will hold my own counsel on this lest, by publicly baptising this event in the name of whatever 'spirit' may be stirring these waters, I rashly lead the innocent astray one way or the other.

Watch and pray the Rosary that God's Will be done. It is unwise in these mercurial times to create a public ground-swell of support or opposition in respect of this matter. It is not for us to say. It is; however, for us to pray.

Barnum said...

Well, IMHO, I'd imagine that if SSPX gets stabbed in the back, they will continue to stand fast and start appointing their own bishops, as they did before. They will be better prepared to withstand any next excommunication, now being an important presence in Rome. As long as SSPX stays true to the faith, everything will be all right.

11rhymesandreasons said...

To refuse full communion under these terms would be to reveal themselves as true schismatics. There is no choice. Why does Rome offer such generous terms? I would think because in their present state the Society has nothing to lose. Once they return to full communion they can be threatened with loss of such. It gives Rome some semblance of control over their most vocal critic...it's just damage control, that's all, but it will only be as effective as a regularized SSPX allows it to be.

Anonymous said...

Here here. Those of us stuck in the Novus Ordo paradigm with no TLM near us other than SSPX will surely be rescued by this. Especially those, like myself who are employed by the local Ordinary. It will bring far left dioceses back towards the center to have these faithful enlisted again officially, and those dioceses with an already strong lean toward tradition will only be stronger yet.

Just think of two practical American examples. The Starkenburg Pilgrimage and the North American Martyr Shrine Pilgrimage. Currently, at the end of both, the local will not let the SSPX enter the shrines. They are forced to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice on the steps. This sort of nonsense will not continue, especially, if the "Francis" says it must not.

Let this injustice end, I welcome the fresh legs in the dioceses that need the help.

Anonymous said...

While I am pleased that it seems the SSPX will have canonical standing, I have my reservations because this is the Vatican of the double cross. Yes, money is important. If the Pope can intervene in the Sovereign Order of Malta, which has many assets, why not at some opportune time grasp the resources of the SSPX? Even one thing wanted out of the FFI fiasco is the desire to wrest their funds, in control of the laity and not the founder or friars, and 'donate' them to the Congregation of Religious which is crushing them. They think that Franciscans with a vow of poverty have lots of cash to hand over. GREAT care must be taken in dealing with snakes.

Paul Dale said...

@ 11rhymesandreasons and Anons

A. This is not communion but a regularisation not on Archbishop Lefebvre's terms but on the those of the liberals of the SSPX. So the rationale says that the modernist conciliarists who are apostates who occupy the Church have the moral high ground in saying who are schismatics and who are catholics in dealing with the only truly Catholic society. So would you trust the second hand car salesman with your Bugatti? Thought not. B. It didn't truly bother Ab Lefebvre, nor the society all the years following their excommunication because they truly had the faith, and Rome didn't. So what has changed now that +Fellay has to go skipping to the big girls in the playground seeking their approval? Only that we have the most heinous occupant of the papacy who hates traditional catholics, is a heretic and acts like a marxist thug.

Anon. So yippee now that the arch heretic in chief has welcomed Little Red Riding Hood and her pals into his lair you can now officially go and play with them at their TLMs. The very fact that their TLMs were truly Catholic all the time but you didn't have the balls to stand up and be counted, speaks volumes about your timidity.

thewarourtime.com said...

Canonical reconginition of the SSPX without the doctrinal dispute being resolved [cf. Gmail - The Doctrinal Dispute between the SSPX and the Church - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0F-MScJrClRVlpsTm5sc2FfS28/view?usp=sharing] would result in further confusion within the Church, and I wouldn't put this past the goal of Pope Francis.

Anonymous said...

I beg your pardon but the SSPX IS in the Church.

And as I've said before, imho the SSPX should not even THINK of regularization until the next pontificate. The SSPX has chapels, churches, schools, convents, monasteries and dedicated clergy and laity who generously give their time, talents and treasure (I.e. $$$) to support the SSPX. That $$$ is not going to the local diocese nor, I suspect, Peter's Pence.

Many people go to the SSPX because they want the TLM, sound Catholic doctrine coming from good priests who are concerned about the salvation of souls, solid catechesis and a good Catholic education for their children.

Remember the diocese of Campos and what happened to them after the death of Archbishop Castro de Meyer? Remember what happened to the Transalpine Redemptorists?

The SSPX needs to stay put for now.

In Christ the King,

Margaret

Anonymous said...

Vox,

I love you dearly, but I can't agree with you re the SSPX regularization. I'm going by memory on this, so please forgive me:

About 15 years ago in The Remnant, there was an interesting Letter to the Editor.

The writer recounted an exchange between him and an Orthodox gentleman. He asked the Orthodox gentleman why he didn't convert to the Catholic Church. The Orthodox gentleman replied that he didn't want to see his liturgy "butchered".

The writer also recounted an exchange between Pope John Paul II and an Orthodox prelate. The Orthodox prelate told the Pope to put his own house in order first. The Pope asked him what he meant. The Orthodox prelate told Pope John Paul II: "Settle your differences with the Society of St. Pius X first and then we'll talk."

Ever since the Jubilee Year 2000, the Vatican has been making overtures towards the SSPX.

This is just my opinion, but quite frankly, I believe that the Vatican took this to heart. IOW, they're only interested in the SSPX because the SSPX is an obstacle to ecumenical relations with the Orthodox.

In fall 2007, my parents and I were visiting my aunt and uncle who were Russian Orthodox. Somehow the conversation turned to PB and how he changed the Good Friday prayer. I tried to explain how PB was pressured to change it. My aunt pounded the table and said: "HE HAD NO RIGHT TO DO THAT!!!" (She was a VERY devout RO.)

That gesture - changing the Good Friday prayer - may have been acceptable to the Jewish community but in the eyes of the Orthodox, it was (for lack of a better term) an ecumenical setback.

Think of it from the Orthodox point of view: If the Pope is willing to change a centuries-old prayer in order to please people, what guarantee do they have that Rome will not do the same thing to their tradition (which is almost the same as ours - I'm Ukrainian Greek Catholic)? (Cf. Remnant citation above)
I'm sure that whatever happens between the Vatican and the SSPX, the Orthodox hierarchy will be looking at it very closely.

Plus, if as you said on your other post, that women "deaconesses" are in the works (!), that's another good reason among many (e.g. not being forced to give Communion to public adulterers, etc) why the SSPX should stay the course.

Sorry for the long post. That's my 5¢ for now.

In Christ the King,

Margaret

Vox Cantoris said...

Margaret, your posts and insight are terrific!

Paul Dale said...

The Charge of the Light Brigade Related Poem Content Details
BY ALFRED, LORD TENNYSON
I
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

II
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Ronald Sevenster said...

Fellay and the SSPX willfully and with open eyes are putting the rope Francis has prepared for them around their own neck. All this points to their inner insecurity. They are of afraid in their consciences of being without a Pope, that they will prefer going to hell with a godless Pope to having none. They prefer formalities above substance.

They repeat saying that they do this under the condition that can "stay what they are". But this condition is the height of sillyness. For it presupposes their own position as an exception in the Church, and thus it implicitly and unwillingly legitimizes Modernism. This is a betrayal of the constant position of the SSPX, which is that Modernism has no place in the Church at all, and that modernists should be expelled from it because they are not Catholic. The entire strength of the SSPX is based on this maxim: Modernism is not Catholicism, which implies that true Catholics are always at war with the modernists and will never be content with a position being able to stay as they are. This maxim implies that the traditional doctrine and practice are the only permissible expression of the faith, and that the Church outside the SSPX, i.e. the entire Novus Ordo Church, is infected with heresy and is unacceptable as a partner in any agreement as long as the modernists are in charge.

I don't trust Francis, and there is little hope that his successor won't be a modernist. What if Francis, or his successor, remove Fellay and put someone else in charge of the SSPX, someone they like? A sound conservative of course, but one who will be prepared to make new concessions and hand over the assets of the SSPX to the Vatican and sign a new agreement.

It foolishness to trust anyone in the Novus Ordo. As long as the modernists are in charge, the only viable way to protect yourself is live in "de facto" schism. And remember: It is really the modernists who are in schism, not the traditionalists.

Eirene said...

Francis and his cohorts cannot be trusted under any circumstances! I agree with Paul Dale and many other commenters here that it would disastrous for the SSPX to go anywhere near Francis with a view to regularization. A recipe for disaster!

Liam Ronan said...

- Donovan - "The Land of Doesn't Have to Be" (1967)

"There is a land not far from the ears of sound
the eyes of sight can't see
it's over the trees
you'll be there by tomorrow's breeze

few people get there quick by their chosen road
they don't know it quicker to go
by natural velocity

there is a wall of doubt surrounding
everything that's there
children fair
they ride there
on the dreamy mare

and at the great big gate
waiters wait
they must fill the form
denounce the norm
they are torn
twixt praise and scorn

and in the dawning dawn
yawners yawn
not knowing they've been
or they've seen
what they've seen
or never seen."

Johnno said...

My guess is that Francis is about to embark on something VERY DAMAGING to the Novus Ordo, that in order to placate what he thinks is the trad minority, he'd rather they take recluse in the SSPX, leaving every other parish open to his Mass reforms. A politician's bargaining offer, an excuse whereby he can say he's opened up a window so why complain? You need to mix the heresy with sprinklings of orthodoxy in order to make this work.

The trads will complain about the new new mass, but the papal defenders will counter that the SSPX are back and valud, and that thetefore no matter how many femake decons consubstantiate a bagel on the altar of the novus ecumenical mass, the Pope must be orthodox because if he wasn't he wouldn't have let the SSPX back now would he?

Of course I'm also counting on God massaging Francis' ego into thinking that only a fraction of Catholics and youth care for the stuffy olf liturgical fashion that's just as temporary trend, so his hubris will allow for the surprise results when the SSPX enivitably buys up the church property the revised novus ordo bishops sell to keep up with demand until they are the minority.

Ana Milan said...

The CC is no longer One, Holy or Universal so the only strand of the four signs of Christ's Church left to us is Apostolic. If more outrageous developments occur in the forseeable future which would lead to an out & out schism, then this strand must be preserved at all costs. We can say that PF & coterie have left the CC - yes, they left it decades ago, but by connivance they have outwardly retained Apostolic succession which has never been denied by the Traditional Orders. If the SSPX don't accept regularisation (on the written assurance they are accepted as they are & own their own buildings etc.), this vital part of full communion will be most likely be taken away from them in retribution (no justice or mercy given). When PF is gone, which cannot be much longer now, we are in no way assured of a traditional pope who would undo all the hardships & sufferings forced on all Catholics since VII. We could receive more of the same, unless the four Cardinals' formal correction can make a difference in attitude of most members of the Hierarchy to call on him to resign. If the SSPX were fully regularised then they could be the backbone of CC renewal/restoration. It is a difficult call I know but the SSPX has been too much inward looking since their foundation instead of realising that the huge majority of Catholics requiring & requesting their presence comes before their own bitter squabbles with the Vatican. This could have been all settled decades ago if pride on both sides of the argument was put aside for honest adherence to the call of Christ to go & teach all nations.

It is very uncharitable for the tiny amount of Catholics who have access to Traditional Orders or Eastern Churches in communion with Rome to throw stones at those who don't. I've been trying to get the SSPX to open up here for a long time now but, despite PB's Summorum Pontificum, NO Bishops will not allow them in despite the necessary numbers requesting TLM & traditional ministry, & PB didn't act to require them to. This pertains throughout most of Europe, not to mention any other areas of the world. Can you please stop this harassment? None of the NO liturgy etc. is of our doing but if Traditional Orders are unwilling to go against NO Bishops & spread themselves, that is their decision & not one I agree with.

Dan said...

Absolutely agree with Johnno.

Anonymous said...

Another dead on accurate and humorous comment Johnno. Keep them coming, yours are the first I look for on each post.

Anonymous said...

So the SPPX refused Pope JP2, and also blatantly refused Pope B, but done a deal with Bergoglio, yey He is one of the worse ever public heretical clowns that ever sat on the chair of Peter so to speak. The very things they claimed that separated them in the first place was the "modernization" of the Catholic Church.
B Fellay just gave Bergoglio what he wanted; they both used each other for their means. I have no doubt Bergoglio’s plan is to use the Sppx in order to look like he cares for orthodoxy. He knows faithful Catholics have had enough of his destruction.
The four Cardinals and others who have expressed their concern over Amoris Laetitia will be the ones that will become more isolated. Those faithful Holy men will be made to look like the antagonisers. Bergoglio will been seen as one that couldn’t possibly be the enemy of orthodoxy because look at what he did for the Sppx.
B.Fellay is a fool, he played right in the hands of Bergoglio, you don’t make deals with the devil, no good can come out of evil. No wonder Fellay remained silent in the face of evil; he had been doing secret deals with Bergoglio while Rome burns.

Paul Dale said...

@ Anna Milan

I wish I could share your wisdom/hope re the full regularisation. The logic could also be applied that their communion could just as easily and unjustly be taken away when they are under full communion with the conciliar church. When the matter of doctrine rears its ugly head again; or will the charism of the society be so compromised by being under Bergoglio's huge umbrella that they will not squarely face the numerous heresies starting with Vatican 2. Why cannot the SSPX be part of that renewal/restoration as they are? When the society was cast adrift by the conciliar church did ++Lefebvre cry into his cornflakes every morning? No, he continued the work of maintaining a truly Roman Catholic priestly society. The Holy Spirit poured abundant graces on them. You may say that the society were "inward looking since their foundation instead of realising that the huge majority of Catholics requiring & requesting their presence comes before their own bitter squabbles with the Vatican".

No, the good archbishop put doctrine and faith before all else because it is the essence of what makes us Catholic. The appealing to the niceties and sensitivities of the huge majority of Catholics must take second place to those considerations, not out of pride but out of prudence. And do we think that such a regulation will be a heavenly panacea and novus ordoland will open their arms and welcome these lost sheep into their dioceses? I pray to God that you are right and that I am wrong; I sincerely hope that the SSPX will lead this great revival of tradition in the Church. But what does history each us with Campos, the Franciscans of the Immaculate and the many actions of this regime in the Vatican. The faith thatChrist handed to His Church is paramount and cannot be traded with the apostates who run the show. The charism of the SSPX was handed to them by Christ to their founder. That charism can quite as easily be discarded by disregarding the teachings of the founder which were 100% Catholic.

Anonymous said...

Bergoglio wants to rule over all religions.

If the SSPX is regularized, they won't have power to negotiate when the scandalous reforms appear, they won't want to lose face.

This is a trap, IMO.

God protect us.
Mary

XXXXXXX said...

Vox,

May I ask...what good, exactly, do you think will come of an SSPX regularization?

M.Ray

Anonymous said...

Let's face it the world is in absolute chaos as is the church as foretold by Our Lady at Fatima, the errors of Russia have spread throughout the world , the consecration still not done. Families are being battered on all sides and children are the victims of abortion , abuse and neglect. Pity the poor girls and boys who feel pressured by the world into changing sex because they are so miserable in their own bodies.
Marriage is no longer a sacred commitment according to God's laws and men now want children with a male partner.This is what our children are now exposed to at least in those countries that war has not destroyed already.
St Pius X condemned modernism and exposed the modernists but he didn't excommunicate them all he allowed them to stay in Holy Mother Church for the good of their souls.Now the whole church has succumbed to this heresy and we have a pope unable to defend or teach the Holy Catholic Faith.What do we do ? Hide in our homes and churches hoping God will save us or put our candles out for others to see ? SSPX is a part of the church and cannot refuse to be a light in these dark times .Sure people are scared but we who have the faith must share it and be prepared to lose our lives for Christ. He is in charge and the gates of hell will not prevail.
Bishop Fellay is not Archbishop Lefebvre and these times are now far worse than 30 years ago. Who would have ever thought that the homosexual lobby could actually change marriage laws ! Our Lady said to pray for poor sinners and that most people go to hell from sins of the flesh.
The church is in need of many holy priests let us pray that God's will be done.

Catholic Mother

Anonymous said...

Big mistake.


Karl

Peter Lamb said...


Archbishop Lefebvre:
“The Church which affirms such errors is both schismatic and heretical. This Conciliar Church is therefore not Catholic.” (July 29, 1976, Reflections on the Suspension a divinis)
“To whatever extent pope, bishops, priests or faithful adhere to this new Church, they separate themselves from the Catholic Church.” (July 29, 1976, Reflections on the Suspension a divinis)
“I should be very happy to be excommunicated from this Conciliar Church… It is a Church that I do not recognize. I belong to the Catholic Church.” (Interview July 30 1976, published in Minute, no. 747) [ There are plenty more quotes to the same effect.]

Bishop Fellay:
"What Gospel does [Francis] have? Which Bible does he have to say such things. It’s horrible. What has this to do with the Gospel? With the Catholic Faith. That’s pure Modernism, my dear brethen. We have in front of us a genuine Modernist."
(Bp. Bernard Fellay, qtd. in John Vennari, “Bishop Fellay on Pope Francis”, Catholic Family News, Oct. 14, 2013)

So Bp. Fellay recognises bergoglio as a modernist heretic and consequently not a Member of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Catholic Church, yet he wants to join this heretical, non-Catholic church? I don't get it. Of course he will bring a lot of Traditionalists back into the bosom of mother NWO church and satan will rejoice.

Surely he should rather listen to St. Paul and St. John who told us what to do with angels who preached a different gospel?

"Have I not hated them, O Lord, that hated thee: and pine away because of thy enemies? I have hated them with a perfect hatred: and they are become enemies to me." Psalm 138:22 Rather ignore the psalmist?

“The crowning disloyalty to God is heresy. It is the sin of sins, the very loathsomest of things which God looks down upon in this malignant world. Yet how little do we understand of its excessive hatefulness!… “We look at it, and are calm. We touch it and do not shudder. We mix with it, and have no fear. We see it touch holy things, and we have no sense of sacrilege… “Our charity is untruthful because it is not severe; and it is unpersuasive, because it is not truthful… Where there is no hatred of heresy, there is no holiness. (Fr. Faber.) Fr. Faber was a neo-Pelagian?

I wonder if Bp. Fellay knows these things and many other I haven't quoted?
So Christ has something with belial after all?

Anonymous said...

Vox,

Thank you for your kind words. �� I try to post things that will edify snd/or inform others.

Back to our topic:

As I said before, they're only interested in the SSPX because the SSPX is an obstacle to ecumenical relations with the Orthodox.

I'm not in the business of making predictions (that's the weatherman's forte), but this is just a hunch:

If the SSPX is "regularized", they will 1) start focusing on the Orthodox, 2) try to get their hands on the assets of the SSPX and/or 3) try to get modernist clergy and seminarians into the SSPX (some would say this is already going on).

I guarantee that the Russian Orthodox are not going to be impressed by the Vatican-SSPX reconciliation. They're going to wait and see how the Vatican treats the SSPX.

The Vatican will have to treat the SSPX with kid gloves if they want to convince the Orthodox. That in turn will anger the liberals, modernists and other figures who want PF to get rid of the SSPX or at least diminish their influence.

If PF pleases the liberals, modernists et alia, the SSPX will feel betrayed. If PF tries to please the SSPX in order to win over the Orthodox, the liberals et alia will be crying foul and the honeymoon will be over. He will go through the same thing as PB did in 2007 after SP, and even worse.

So you will have the SSPX and the Orthodox on one side and the liberals, modernists et alia on the other side. In the middle will be the average Catholic in the pew who really doesn't care one way or the other unless it affects them personally, and then they will take sides.

If you haven't already, I strongly suggest that you and all Voxites read The Keys of This Blood by Malachi Martin.
Support your fellow Canadians and try Triumph Communications first:

http://www.triumphcommunications.net

If you have to, try Amazon.

This book is essential reading. It's 25+ years old, but it is still relevant today to understanding the crisis in the Church.

Again, please forgive the long post.

In Christ the King,

Margaret







Char H. said...

"Over the past five years, the “justice” argument has taken center stage and has swept all others aside. It is regurgitated throughout the Traditional echo chamber ad nauseam. Bloggers of all stripes – many who do not attend Society chapels – join in the chorus."
https://psalm129.wordpress.com/2016/12/15/no-justice-no-peace/

Justina said...

My thoughts are as follows, but they are offered as reflections only; the SSPX has a long history of which I am no student, so I readily admit that others,may grasp this situation better than I do. What I do know, and what I'd like to offer for consideration, is the observation that Francis the First doesn't "kick and scream" about anything. He does and says exactly what he intends to do and say, for reasons which reliably serve his agenda, and his agenda alone. The question which arises in my mind is: what's in it for him? Well, we keep hearing that he and his hacks are about to transform even the Novus Ordo into something the most Conciliar among us would fail to recognize as Catholic. Before that initiative is launched, Francis has to cut off all possible escape routes. I think he is merely keeping his friends close, but his enemies closer. Why should it be said that the SSPX, which has been party to negotiations with Rome before but has backed away for one reason or another, would become "definitely schismatic" should they find they need to back away again? I agree with Vox that only good can come of the situation, in the basic sense that God can bring good out of anything. Still, we don't sin or make deliberate mistakes because of His ability to do so. The SSPX is dealing with a flagrant manipulator who abuses his power shamelessly. I hope that that reality is taken into serious consideration regarding any decision that is reached.

thewarourtime.com said...

Adding to Anonymous' comment [http://voxcantor.blogspot.com/2017/02/sspx-and-reconciliation.html?showComment=1488127353859#c5193966603184751402] above.
***
Riddle me this:

Bishop Fellay on Pope Francis in 2013: “We have in front of us a genuine Modernist!” - http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/14e8cf27a431ca52105cf70b45567b82-149.html

Yet now the overtures of the said Pope are acceptable to him WITHOUT the doctrinal dispute being clarified?

Something not right here.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Paul, for shedding more light on the situation. Really great post.

Margaret

Anonymous said...

Atta boy, Karl!

Margaret

Maudie N Mandeville said...

' Francis seems to be prepared to finish the work.' Indeed, 'finish them off' is more likely. I hope SSPX is prepared to be infiltrated, bullied, intimidated, demeaned and ridiculed. Any diminution of their videos, articles, critical interviews and links to others will be the telling sign of eventual capitulation. 100% Catholic or nothing.