Tuesday, 4 October 2016

Cum Ex Apostolic Officio and how it applies today. Just read it.

During the time of the Council of Trent Pope Paul IV issued his Apostolic Constitution Cum Ex Apostolic Officio of February 15, 1559. This 223rd Successor of Peter would die six months later on August 18th. His four year pontificate was highlighted by his promotion of moral reforms. This Papal Bull below also focused on the validity of a prelate or Pope in the event they were in heresy or apostasy. Because it deals with faith and morals and was issued ex cathedra (from the Chair of Peter) and therefore is considered not only infallible, but to be held in perpetuity. 
By virtue of the Apostolic office which, despite our unworthiness, has been entrusted to Us by God, We are responsible for the general care of the flock of the Lord. Because of this, in order that the flock may be faithfully guarded and beneficially directed, We are bound to be diligently watchful after the manner of a vigilant Shepherd and to ensure most carefully that certain people who consider the study of the truth beneath them should be driven out of the sheepfold of Christ and no longer continue to disseminate error from positions of authority. We refer in particular to those who in this age, impelled by their sinfulness and supported by their cunning, are attacking with unusual learning and malice the discipline of the orthodox Faith, and who, moreover, by perverting the import of Holy Scripture, are striving to rend the unity of the Catholic Church and the seamless tunic of the Lord.
1.In assessing Our duty and the situation now prevailing, We have been weighed upon by the thought that a matter of this kind [i.e. error in respect of the Faith] is so grave and so dangerous that the Roman Pontiff, who is the representative upon earth of God and our God and Lord Jesus Christ, who holds the fullness of power over peoples and kingdoms, who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith. Remembering also that, where danger is greater, it must more fully and more diligently be counteracted, We have been concerned lest false prophets or others, even if they have only secular jurisdiction, should wretchedly ensnare the souls of the simple, and drag with them into perdition, destruction and damnation countless peoples committed to their care and rule, either in spiritual or in temporal matters; and We have been concerned also lest it may befall Us to see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by the prophet Daniel, in the holy place. In view of this, Our desire has been to fulfil our Pastoral duty, insofar as, with the help of God, We are able, so as to arrest the foxes who are occupying themselves in the destruction of the vineyard of the Lord and to keep the wolves from the sheepfolds, lest We seem to be dumb watchdogs that cannot bark and lest We perish with the wicked husbandman and be compared with the hireling.
2 Hence, concerning these matters, We have held mature deliberation with our venerable brothers the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church; and, upon their advice and with their unanimous agreement, we now enact as follows: In respect of each and every sentence of excommunication, suspension, interdict and privation and any other sentences, censures and penalties against heretics or schismatics, enforced and promulgated in any way whatsoever by any of Our predecessors the Roman Pontiffs, or by any who were held to be such (even by their "litterae extravagantes" i.e. private letters), or by the sacred Councils received by the Church of God, or by decrees of the Holy Fathers and the statutes, or by the sacred Canons and the Constitutions and Apostolic Ordinations - all these measures, by Apostolic authority, We approve and renew, that they may and must be observed in perpetuity and, if perchance they be no longer in lively observance, that they be restored to it. Thus We will and decree that the aforementioned sentences, censures and penalties be incurred without exception by all members of the following categories:
(i) Anysoever who, before this date, shall have been detected to have deviated from the Catholic Faith, or fallen into any heresy, or incurred schism, or provoked or committed either or both of these, or who have confessed to have done any of these things, or who have been convicted of having done any of these things.
(ii) Anysoever who (which may God, in His clemency and goodness to all, deign to avert) shall in the future so deviate or fall into heresy, or incur schism, or shall provoke or commit either or both of these.
(iii) Anysoever who shall be detected to have so deviated, fallen, incurred, provoked or committed, or who shall confess to have done any of these things, or who shall be convicted of having done any of these things.
   These sanctions, moreover, shall be incurred by all members of these categories, of whatever status, grace, order, condition and pre-eminence they may be, even if they be endowed with the Episcopal, Archiepiscopal, Patriarchal, Primatial or some other greater Ecclesiastical dignity, or with the honour of the Cardinalate and of the Universal Apostolic See by the office of Legate, whether temporary or permanent, or if they be endowed with even worldly authority or excellence, as Count, Baron, Marquis, Duke, King or Emperor.
   All this We will and decree.
3. Nonetheless, We also consider it proper that those who do not abandon evil deeds through love of virtue should be deterred therefrom by fear of punishment; and We are aware that Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Primates, Cardinals and Legates, Counts, Barons, Marquises, Dukes, Kings and Emperors (who ought to teach others and offer them a good example in order to preserve them in the Catholic Faith), by failing in their duty sin more gravely than others; since they not only damn themselves, but also drag with them into perdition and into the pit of death countless other people entrusted to their care or rule, or otherwise subject to them, by their like counsel and agreement.
   Hence, by this Our Constitution which is to remain valid in perpetuity, in abomination of so great a crime (than which none in the Church of God can be greater or more pernicious) by the fullness of our Apostolic Power, We enact, determine, decree and define (since the aforesaid sentences, censures and penalties are to remain in efficacious force and strike all those whom they are intended to strike) that:
(i) each and every member of the following categories - Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Primates, Cardinals, Legates, Counts, Barons, Marquises, Dukes, Kings and Emperors - who:
(a) hitherto (as We have already said) have been detected, or have confessed to have, or have been convicted of having, deviated [i.e. from the Catholic Faith], or fallen into heresy or incurred schism or provoked or committed either or both of these;
(b) in the future also shall [so] deviate, or fall into heresy, or incur schism, or provoke or commit either or both of these, or shall be detected or shall confess to have, or shall be convicted of having [so] deviated, or fallen into heresy, or incurred schism, or provoked or committed either or both of these;
(c) since in this they are rendered more inexcusable than the rest in addition to the aforementioned sentences, censures and penalties, shall also automatically, without any exercise of law or application of fact, be thoroughly, entirely and perpetually deprived of:- their Orders and Cathedrals, even Metropolitan, Patriarchal and Primatial Churches, the honour of the Cardinalate and the office of any embassy whatsoever, not to mention both active and passive voting rights, all authority, Monasteries, benefices and Ecclesiastical offices, be they functional or sinecures, secular or religious of whatsoever Order, which they may have obtained by any concessions whatsoever, or by Apostolic Dispensations to title, charge and administration or otherwise howsoever, and in which or to which they may have any right whatsoever, likewise any whatsoever fruits, returns or annual revenues from like fruits, returns and revenues reserved for and assigned to them, as well as Countships, Baronies, Marquisates, Dukedoms, Kingships and Imperial Power;
(ii) that, moreover, they shall be unfit and incapable in respect of these things and that they shall be held to be backsliders and subverted in every way, just as if they had previously abjured heresy of this kind in public trial; that they shall never at any time be able to be restored, returned, reinstated or rehabilitated to their former status or Cathedral, Metropolitan, Patriarchal and Primatial Churches, or the Cardinalate, or other honour, any other dignity, greater or lesser, any right to vote, active or passive, or authority, or Monasteries and benefices, or Countships, Baronies, Marquisates, Dukedoms, Kingships and positions of Imperial power; but rather that they shall be abandoned to the judgement of the secular power to be punished after due consideration, unless there should appear in them signs of true penitence and the fruits of worthy repentance, and, by the kindness and clemency of the See itself, they shall have been sentenced to sequestration in any Monastery or other religious house in order to perform perpetual penance upon the bread of sorrow and the water of affliction;
(iii) that all such individuals also shall be held, treated and reputed as such by everyone, of whatsoever status, grade, order, condition or pre-eminence he may be and whatsoever excellence may be his, even Episcopal, Archiepiscopal, Patriarchal and Primatial or other greater Ecclesiastical dignity and even the honour of the Cardinalate, or secular, even the authority of Count, Baron, Marquis, Duke, King or Emperor, and as such must be avoided and must be deprived of the sympathy of all natural kindness.
4. [By this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity, We] further enact, determine, decree and define:] that those who shall have claimed to have the right of patronage or of nominating suitable persons to Cathedral, Metropolitan, Patriarchal and Primatial Churches, or to Monasteries or other Ecclesiastical benefices which may be vacant by privation of this kind (in order that those which shall have been vacant for a long time may not be exposed to the unfit, but, having been rescued from enslavement to heretics, may be granted to suitable persons who would faithfully direct their people in the paths of justice), shall be bound to present other persons suitable to Churches, Monasteries and benefices of this kind, to Us, or to the Roman Pontiff at that time existing, within the time determined by law, or by their concordats, or by compacts entered into with the said See; and that, if they shall not have done so when the said period shall have elapsed, the full and free disposition of the aforesaid Churches, Monasteries and benefices shall by the fulness of the law itself devolve upon Us or upon the aforesaid Roman Pontiff.
5. [By this Our Constitution,] moreover, [which is to remain valid in perpetuity, We] also [enact, determine, decree and define:] as follows concerning those who shall have presumed in any way knowingly to receive, defend, favour, believe or teach the teaching of those so apprehended, confessed or convicted:
(i) they shall automatically incur sentence of excommunication;
(ii) they shall be rendered infamous;
(iii) they shall be excluded on pain of invalidity from any public or private office, deliberation, Synod, general or provincial Council and any conclave of Cardinals or other congregation of the faithful, and from any election or function of witness, so that they cannot take part in any of these by vote, in person, by writings, representative or by any agent;
(iv) they shall be incapable of making a will;
(v) they shall not accede to the succession of heredity;
(vi) no one shall be forced to respond to them concerning any business;
(vii) if perchance they shall have been Judges, their judgements shall have no force, nor shall any cases be brought to their hearing.;
(viii) if they shall have been Advocates, their pleading shall nowise be received;(ix) if they shall have been Notaries, documents drafted by them shall be entirely without strength or weight;
(x) clerics shall be automatically deprived of each and every Church, even Cathedral, Metropolitan, Patriarchal, Primatial, and likewise of dignities, Monasteries, benefices and Ecclesiastical offices, and even, as has been already mentioned, of qualifications, howsoever obtained by them;
(xi) laymen, moreover, in the same way - even if they be qualified, as already described, or endowed with the aforesaid dignities or anysoever Kingdoms, Duchies, Dominions, Fiefs and temporal goods possessed by them;
(xii) finally, all Kingdoms, Duchies, Dominions, Fiefs and goods of this kind shall be confiscated, made public and shall remain so, and shall be made the rightful property of those who shall first occupy them if these shall be sincere in faith, in the unity of the Holy Roman Church and under obedience to Us and to Our successors the Roman Pontiffs canonically entering office.
6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:] that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:
(i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;
(ii) it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration, of subsequent authority, nor through possession of administration, nor through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff, or Veneration, or obedience accorded to such by all, nor through the lapse of any period of time in the foregoing situation;
(iii) it shall not be held as partially legitimate in any way;
(iv) to any so promoted to be Bishops, or Archbishops, or Patriarchs, or Primates or elevated as Cardinals, or as Roman Pontiff, no authority shall have been granted, nor shall it be considered to have been so granted either in the spiritual or the temporal domain;
(v) each and all of their words, deeds, actions and enactments, howsoever made, and anything whatsoever to which these may give rise, shall be without force and shall grant no stability whatsoever nor any right to anyone;
(vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.
7. Finally, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity, We] also [enact, determine, define and decree]: that any and all persons who would have been subject to those thus promoted or elevated if they had not previously deviated from the Faith, become heretics, incurred schism or provoked or committed any or all of these, be they members of anysoever of the following categories: the Cardinals, even those who shall have taken part in the election of this very Pontiff previously deviating from the Faith or heretical or schismatical, or shall otherwise have consented and vouchsafed obedience to him and shall have venerated him;
Castellans, Prefects, Captains and Officials, even of Our Beloved City and of the entire Ecclesiastical State, even if they shall be obliged and beholden to those thus promoted or elevated by homage, oath or security; shall be permitted at any time to withdraw with impunity from obedience and devotion to those thus promoted or elevated and to avoid them as warlocks, heathens, publicans, and heresiarchs (the same subject persons, nevertheless, remaining bound by the duty of fidelity and obedience to any future Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Primates, Cardinals and Roman Pontiff canonically entering).
   To the greater confusion, moreover, of those thus promoted or elevated, if these shall have wished to prolong their government and authority, they shall be permitted to request the assistance of the secular arm against these same individuals thus promoted or elevated; nor shall those who withdraw on this account, in the aforementioned circumstances, from fidelity and obedience to those thus promoted and elevated, be subject, as are those who tear the tunic of the Lord, to the retribution of any censures or penalties.
8. [The provisions of this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity are to take effect] notwithstanding any Constitutions, Apostolic Ordinations, privileges, indults or Apostolic Letters, whether they be to these same Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Primates and Cardinals or to any others, and whatsoever may be their import and form, and with whatsoever sub-clauses or decrees they may have been granted, even "motu proprio" and by certain knowledge, from the fulness of the Apostolic power or even consistorially or otherwise howsoever; and even if they have been repeatedly approved and renewed,have been included in the corpus of the Law or strengthened by any capital conclaves whatsoever (even by oath) or by Apostolic confirmation or by anysoever other endorsements or if they were legislated by ourself. By this present document instead of by express mention, We specially and expressly derogate the provisions of all these by appropriate deletion and word-for-word substitution, so that these may otherwise remain in force.
9. In order, however, that this document may be brought to the notice of all whom it concerns, We wish it or a transcription of it (to which, when made by the hand of the undersigned Public Notary and fortified by the seal of any person established in ecclesiastical dignity, We decree that complete trust must be accorded) to be published and affixed in the Basilica of the Prince of the Apostles in this City and on the doors of the Apostolic Chancery and in the pavilion of the Campus Florae by some of our couriers; [we] will [further] that a quantity of copies affixed in this place should be distributed, and that publication and affixing of this kind should suffice and be held as right, solemn and legitimate, and that no other publication should be required or awaited.
10. No one at all, therefore, may infringe this document of our approbation, re-introduction, sanction, statute and derogation of wills and decrees, or by rash presumption contradict it. If anyone, however, should presume to attempt this, let him know that he is destined to incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the blessed Apostles, Peter and Paul.
Given in Rome at Saint Peter's in the year of the Incarnation of the Lord 1559, 15th February, in the fourth year of our Pontificate.
+ I, Paul, Bishop of the Catholic Church of Rome


Ana Milan said...

That covers about everything that has happened in the CC since Vatican II & our entire leadership emanating from that Council. As all are infected with the Marxist/Masonic/Modernist ideology (some to a greater degree than others) who could possibly be in a position to carry out such excommunications? It doesn't seem possible, in which case we must assume that Divine Intervention will be absolutely necessary to restore what has been taken away by these wolves. Not one of them has shown any remorse for the total ruin they have caused to the souls entrusted to them, for the abomination & total irreverence to Almighty God in the Blessed Sacrament & their callous disrespect of the Mother of God. Their authority (Divinely given) has been utterly abused & therefore should be immediately invalidated by the total rejection of any Papal Exhortations or Motu Propios coming forth from the Vatican. It does seem inevitable now that yet another schism will take place as we battle with the Dark One for the Bride of Christ.

Anonymous said...

WOW. This document is nothing less than astounding. I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned on any other traditional websites, that I've seen anyway. In all the discussions over the past 3 years on this topic, this decree of Paul IV should've been at the forefront!

I hardly know where to begin in addressing this. I think the decree about people being released from their duty of obedience to heretical shepherds would be the most pertinent to today. God bless you Vox, for publishing this. This really needs to be discussed widely throughout the Church. The ramifications are huge.

Unknown said...

That is pre-Vatican II! No one in this Church listens to anything written before 1965!

Mike said...

So, now what?

There seems to be no other conclusion other than that the Chair of Peter is vacant, and (except for the supplied jurisdiction given in the case of common error to the few prelates who still hold the Catholic Faith), all the Dioceses in the world have vacant Episcopal Sees as well.

I keep trying to look for ways to not be a sedevacantist. I mean, its not exactly an pleasant position to hold, but all avenues to an alternative position appear to be closed off, if one is to remain consistent in the Faith and the laws of the Church. Kyrie eleison.

Someone correct me, please.

Ever mindful said...

How long would it take, reading one pre-vat 2 encyclical per week, to get right back to St Peter's first letter ?

Peter Lamb said...

Dear Vox, How thrilled I was to see this post! How many times have I quoted Cum Ex on this blog! How often have I expressed my admiration for your integrity and guts. I do so again!

A few points of interest:
i. Pope Paul promulgated Cum ex to prevent a protestant from ever becoming Pope. It was the time of the reformation.

ii. Please pay attention to 6.(vi):
" those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power."
Pope Paul, together with several Doctors of the Church, Vatican I and many theologians and Saints, have emphasized that the heretic loses office automatically, ipso facto, upon committing the sin of heresy WITHOUT FURTHER DECLARATION. (Dear Ana, one doesn't need somebody to excommunicate one for heresy, one excommunicates oneself.)

iii. This Apostolic Constitution is a matter of canon law - not Faith and Morals. Each Pope is Supreme Legislator and each has the same authority as his predecessors, or successors. Each Pope may alter, promulgate, or rescind canon law, as he deems fit to the times, or circumstances. Cum ex has been abrogated by Pio-Benedictine canon 188.4(1917), but it still does, however, make a good moral argument.

iv. The term "in perpetuity" causes confusion among us laymen. It does NOT mean, as we might think, that the law can never be changed and must stand for all time. In canon law, it means that the law will stand for an indefinite period, not prescribed by the promulgator.

v. Very briefly, (Eirene might be watching :) ), canon 188.4:
"There are certain causes which effect the tacit (silent) resignation of an office, which resignation is accepted in advance BY OPERATION OF THE LAW, and hence is effective WITHOUT ANY DECLARATION. These causes are ...(4) publicly defects from the Catholic faith."

De Lugo explains:
"For if it could be established in some other way, given that the doctrine is well known, given the kind of person involved and given the other circumstances, that the accused could not have been unaware that his thesis was opposed to the Church, he would be considered as a heretic from this fact… The reason for this is clear because the exterior warning can serve only to ensure that someone who has erred understands the opposition which exists between his error and the teaching of the Church. If he knew the subject through books and conciliar definitions much better than he could know it by the declarations of someone admonishing him then there would be no reason to insist on a further warning for him to become pertinacious against the Church."

Vox Cantoris said...

Dear Peter,

You are always most welcome here; I appreciate your knowledge and commentary. I, cannot bring myself to take the sede position, because it seems to me that there are simply, bad popes, evil popes, and that is that. Of course, I am meaning this in points of law, Canon Law. Benedict XVI renounced the papacy, as far as we can tell from him, lawfully. Bergoglio is accepted by the priests of the Diocese of Rome, and ultimately, the broader Church as, Bishop of Rome, therefore, he is Pope. Anything beyond this just makes no sense to me.

But; yes, you knew there was a "but" coming:

Is, Cum ex, still in force or isn't it? If it is not, how and when did it cease, you refer to something above, but I am not clear, if it is, then we are in deep, deep trouble.

Vox Cantoris said...

Mike, your answer is in your own comment. "One is to remain consistent in the Faith and the laws of the Church."

As for where to go to Mass? The best possible priest and parish you can find.

Anonymous said...

I'm not yet ready to accept that this means we are in a sedevacantist position, although this has admittedly moved me closer. This letter makes heretical appointments invalid, but it doesn't seem to me to invalidate their Sacraments, which are valid regardless if they are licit or not, as long as performed with proper form, etc. Thus the bishops appointed today may in fact not have legitimate authority over their diocese if they have apostasized from the Faith, but they are still A bishop, as their consecration/ordination would still have been valid.

Michael Dowd said...

Vox says: "Is, Cum ex, still in force or isn't it? If it is not, how and when did it cease, you refer to something above, but I am not clear, if it is, then we are in deep, deep trouble."

My impression is that ex cathedra statements concerning faith and morals are in force for ever more regardless of the particular circumstances that necessitated their promulgation. If this is not the case then all doctrine is subject to change and faith is meaningless. Is this not correct?

Peter Lamb said...

Dear Vox, you must distinguish between a BAD pope and an HERETICAL pope. A bad pope issues immoral teaching, or laws which must be legitimately disobeyed by the faithful. The bad pope remains however, a true Pope. He does not loose his office. Most importantly, no bad pope (and there have been plenty), has ever taught error, or heresy to the universal church, (St. Robert, Vatican I) - the Holy Ghost will not permit him to do so. (Dogmas of Indefectibility and Infallibility.) Even John XII and the Borgias, who were accomplished sinners, never taught false doctrine. They were sinners - not heretics. They sinned against Morals - not Faith.

The heretical pope is an entirely different kettle of fish. He excommunicates himself automatically, ipso facto, by committing the sin of heresy against Divine law, as does any heretic - be he pope, or pewsitter. He is no longer a member of the Mystical Body - which is the Catholic Church. A non-Catholic, be he atheist, idol-worshiping budist, moslem, protestant, or any other variety of non-Catholic, cannot be Pope. He who is not a Member, cannot be Head. The Pope must be a Catholic - one who professes the Catholic faith in its entirety.

That's the difference. A bad pope is a sinner, just like me, but he is still Pope, just as when I sin, even mortally, I am still a Catholic. An heretical pope loses his office and is no longer a Catholic - he is no longer Pope formaliter.

Cum ex is no longer in force as canon law. It has been replaced by canon 188.4. (1917.) Here is a good article to explain canon 188.4:


" Benedict XVI renounced the papacy, as far as we can tell from him, lawfully."
Benedict XVI was never a true Pope.

"Bergoglio is accepted by the priests of the Diocese of Rome, and ultimately, the broader Church as, Bishop of Rome, therefore, he is Pope."
I think you refer to Cardinal Billot. Here is a good talk on this point. (from 5:50.)


Peter Lamb said...

Dear Michael Dowd, You are correct: "... ex cathedra statements concerning faith and morals are in force for ever more regardless of the particular circumstances that necessitated their promulgation." This is absolutely correct regarding Faith and Morals, but the same cannot be said of canon law, which a sovereign legislator may alter as he deems fit - eg. rules of fasting etc. Sovereigns, Presidents and Congress change man made laws all the time.

Peter Lamb said...

Dear Anonymous @ 7:53am, A validly consecrated Bishop, or validly ordained Priest continues to confect valid sacraments, if they use proper matter and form, as you say. Thus a validly consecrated satanic bishop confects a valid Eucharist at his black mass. The mark of the Priesthood (and the Bishop has the "fullness" of the Prieshood), is indelible on the soul for eternity.
Thus heretical Bishops, or Priests, in the time of Paul IV, lost their office and authority, (as heretics still do) but maintained their ability to confect valid sacraments BECAUSE THEY WERE VALIDLY CONSECRATED, OR ORDAINED. The same applies to any NWO bishop, or priest, today who was consecrated, or ordained, in the "old" rite.

The "new" (NWO) rite of consecration is definitely invalid and the new rite of ordination is at least doubtful - due to imposed changes of form. Consequently, any bishops consecrated, or priests ordained in the new rites are themselves not valid and are unable to confect any valid sacraments, except baptism and marriage.

Anonymous said...

Vox, whether you know it or not, you are on the road to either sedevacantism or the rejection of Catholicism.

Why? Because you claim Amoris Laetitia endorses mortal sin. I believe it is impossible for the Catholic Church to endorse mortal sin in an official universal document like (AL). Is it not tantamount to the Church defecting, if AL says what you claim it says?

Are not Magisterial documents at least infallibly safe?

In reality, AL does not endorse mortal sin. It "seemingly does", or the illusion is there...mysteriously...but it does not actually say what you claim it says.

I like your blog! Thanks dude,

St Columba

Vox Cantoris said...

The Church cannot defect from Herself. There can be evil men which try to undermine her. Cardinal Burke stated that AE is not "magisterial." I don't know, he is the Canonist, but how I interpret it is that if there is anything in it which conflicts it must be rejected. Now, you and I would agree that the document is Modernist and therefore, heretical, because this is how these men work, they speak well and then, one drop of poison carefully hidden.

I will never reject Catholicism. I accept that Jorge Bergoglio is the Bishop of Rome and that makes him Pope of the Universal Church.

I also accept that Popes can be evil. Can they be heretics or excommunicated, ipso facto before they are elected? Sure? Does that mean they are not valid popes? Well, that question is clearly above my paygrade, so until such time as I get a raise, I'll accept him as Pope but I may not like it.

Mike said...

Well now, Anon, there is one issue with that - Paul VI's new rites of Holy Orders which he promulgated in 1968. The most important one to look at is Episcopal Consecration.

If you look at Pius XII's Sacramentum Ordinis http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12SACRAO.HTM and compare what he infallibly taught as required for validity in the Sacrament of Holy Orders, against Paul VI's new Episcopal Consecration, then there is a glaring ommission in the new rite of Paul VI, calling into serious doubt the validity of new Bishops.

Any Bishop consecrated after 1968 or 1969 in the new rite seems to be reasonably doubtful, if we look at the irrevocable teaching of the Church from Pius XII. A non-Bishop cannot ordain true priests, and non-priests cannot administer valid sacraments.

If Paul VI was not the pope, then there is no guarantee that his new Sacramental rites are in themselves valid, and when a side by side comparison between the traditional and the new is made, the case becomes even stronger.

Where to go to Mass? The SSPX have preserved valid orders, and do not use the new rites. My local Bishop/"bishop" cannot or will not provide the Roman Rite of Mass in parishes, and cannot guarantee the validity of the sacraments that fall under his delegation; nor can he guarantee that one of his priests will not preach modernism or other heresies from the pulpit, so I cannot go anywhere except the SSPX.

Vox Cantoris said...

My reading of the new rite of consecration/ordination is that it is very similar to that of the Maronite, (my heritage). Further, the SSPX accept the validity of post Vatican II bishops. Whilst I don't have a link now, I have read the SSPX theological analysis of the ordinations rite, and that they are valid.

Ultimately, what is necessary is the laying on of hands and the intent. Are you saying that there is no laying on hands in the new rite?

Mike said...

Dear Vox, you can bring it down to your paygrade easily.

Is a public heretic a member of the Mystical Body of Christ, or not?

If he is not a member, then he is not a member, pure and simple.

There are no exceptions, as it is Divine Law, not Canon Law, although Canon Law reflects this.

Heretics are outside the Church, because the fundamental visible bond of the Church is Faith - the outward profession of Faith. If one severs this visible bond, one is no longer a Catholic, not even a little bit.

If one commits a mortal sin against Charity, one is still a member of the Church, but a dead member.

But public heresy is on another level altogether. Public heresy is incompatible with being a Catholic. Look at how Pope Paul IV hammers this point home.

So, if one is a public heretic, it does not matter whether he claims to hold high office in the Church, "even if they be endowed with the Episcopal, Archiepiscopal, Patriarchal, Primatial or some other greater Ecclesiastical dignity, or with the honour of the Cardinalate and of the Universal Apostolic See."

There are far worse things to be than a sedevacantist. Public heresy and endorsing public heretics is one that I can think of.

Mike said...

How far the revolution of the Novus Ordo church has progressed!!

If you now read or promote anything that the Church taught or decreed from before Vatican II, you are considered on dangerous ground, suspect of secret sedevacantism (gasp!) or on your way out of the Church.

Well, if you are on your way out of the Novus Ordo church towards a full understanding and embrace of the Catholic Church, then good for you!

You can imagine under Lenin, Stalin or Mao, that reading material from before their revolutions would have been considered dangerous and unorthodox too.

If there is an incompatibility between what was taught or decreed before Vatican II and afterwards, then it is obvious we are dealing with two different churches - one true and one false.

Mike said...

If an appointment is made under common error, (e.g. everyone thought Paul VI was a true pope at the time) then as far as I understand things, the Church supplies jurisdiction for that appointment and the appointment is valid, as long as the man appointed is a Catholic and not a public heretic like Mueller for example. For the Sacraments issue, see my above post.

Peter Lamb said...

Here are some articles on the validity of the "new" rite of Episcopal Consecration. Henry Patrick Omlor and Fr. Rama Coomaraswamy should also be read.

Absolutely Null and Utterly Void: The 1968 Rite of Episcopal Consecration [PDF; March 2006]

Why the New Bishops Are Not True Bishops. A two page summary of the above:

Still Null and Still Void: Replies to Objections

New Bishops, Empty Tabernacle.

Saved by Context? The ’68 Rite of Episcopal Consecration [March 2012]

Mike said...

Whether or not this exact document is still in force can be looked into. The bigger principle here is that Cum Ex is the application of Divine Law, which says that public heretics are not members of the Mystical Body of Christ, and therefore cannot hold any office within her, and if they happen to be elected to some position, then it is invalid and worthless. This is Divine Law. God does not command his Church to be subject to the rule of heretics who do not have the Faith. Faith is the first of the two visible bonds of the Church. Social Charity is the second visible bond.

To be a public heretic or apostate is to sever the first bond; to be a schismatic is to sever the second bond.

Since the Church is a visible institution, to break either of these visible bonds puts one outside the Church, and we are to "avoid them as warlocks, heathens, publicans, and heresiarchs".

It is really very simple. Heretics are not Catholics, and non-Catholics cannot hold office in the Church.

Since it is of Divine Law, it can never be revoked, although a particular Church document applying it in Canon Law may or may not remain current, and may be replaced, such as the 1917 Canon Law # 188 (4).

Mike said...

Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais of the SSPX does not regard the new bishops as true bishops.

Mike said...

Pius XII said the form of the sacrament of orders must mention both the order being conferred and the grace of the Holy Ghost, and is not valid if it doesn't. The old rite of episcopal consecration mentions both.

"Complete in Thy priest the fullness of Thy ministry, and adorned in the raiment of all glory, sanctify him with the dew of heavenly anointing.”

The new rite of Paul VI is bizzare, ambiguous and does not meet the requirements for validity according to Pius XII.

“So now pour out upon this chosen one that power which is from you, the governing Spirit whom you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, the Spirit given by Him to the holy apostles, who founded the Church in every place to be your temple for the unceasing glory and praise of your name.”

There is some link to the Maronite rite, but it seems that the above form may have been used to install a Metropolitan or something, which is not a sacramental form, as the man being installed is already a Bishop.

See what a mess Paul VI and his revolutionaries made. Stay with an Eastern Catholic rite or the SSPX. The local diocesan fellow may not be a priest at all unfortunatley. This has been a devastating thing for me personally to have learned.

Mike said...

There is laying of hands in the new rite, but the form is defective.

Laying of hands is the matter, and the words spoken whilst doing so is the form.

Leo XIII said that if the matter and form are correct, then the intention is automatically presumed.

However if there is a defect in the form, as there is in Paul VI's new rite, then the whole thing is presumed invalid. The interior intention must be made visible and manifest, and the new rite does not make the intention manifest.

Ana Milan said...

If a Pope, Cardinal or Bishop excommunicates himself by preaching heresy, blasphemy etc. & still retains office, who is going to publicly declare him an apostate & that he no longer holds the office he had been entrusted with? This is especially true if the entire Hierarchy are all involved in a cover-up to keep their man in situ. Why would former Popes & Saints tell us to call out heretical prelates or popes if this means wasn't open to us? Why would the best Theologians & Canon Lawyers we have to-day condemn AL if it were a good document & in keeping with the Magisterium & what was taught over the past centuries?

Sedes don't offer any way forward. Christ said He would be with His Church until the end of time. Now either you believe Him or you don't. If you do believe, then the Gates of Hell have not prevailed & He is still with us in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass & the Sacraments, as he left us these gifts fully knowing we would desperately need them. If you don't believe & feel He hasn't kept His promise then what's the point in your saying there is no Bishop with proper Orders left to consecrate other Bishops or priests? Are you expecting angels to descend from Heaven & make everything right? If the Good Lord has left us to the wolves then there is no point to discussing our future. But we know that He hasn't, as no good parent would ever dream of doing that to his child, so too with Our Heavenly Father.

Our Lady's prediction that Rome would lose the faith has, indeed, come true but even She did not ask us to leave & always referred to the Holy Father. She asked us to keep praying the Rosary & to repent & said that when all seemed to be lost that was the time She would triumph. Obviously the incumbents of the Vatican don't give any respect to Our Blessed Lady, but I trust we Catholics do and as Our Lord also said that those who persevere to the end will be saved, that is the course we must take. Remember Lepanto.

Peter Lamb said...

Dear Mike, you put things very lucidly. Great comments. Me no canon lawyer, but I think you are mistaken about Paul VI. Excommunication occurs immediately upon the heresy becoming notorius - i.e. being made public. (An occult heretic is not excommunicated.) Even if the heretic only tells one other person, it becomes public. Roncalli and Montini were masons and this was known by a bunch of people - their heresy was public, they were excommunicated and therefore ineligible for election as Pope - even if their heresy was not known to Catholics at large.

Mike said...

I agree, maybe I didn't express myself clearly. I am not much of a writer, but I think I have a good grasp of what it is to be a Catholic, according to the Church's own clear teaching of Divine Law.

As soon as heresy is manifest, even if it is known only by a few, the heretic is out of the Church.

It becomes obvious to wider circles when we look at what is thought to be Montini's "pontificate"; by inventing such things as a non-Catholic Novus Ordo "mass" which denies the propitiatory nature of the Mass; the approval of the doubtful or invalid vernacular "for you and for all men"; the promulgation of false ecumenism and religious liberty; the promulgation of seriously doubtful or outright invalid rites of Holy Orders - the list goes on.

These things were possible because Montini never attained the papacy, according to Pope Paul IV (not to be confused with Paul VI!), and these abberations make that fact obvious to everyeone. Not everyone saw him as a heretic before he was elected in the '63 convlave, but thanks be to God, whose Providence allowed such things as the internet in our time, we can now unravel the mystery of the worst crisis in history, and see the wolves for what they are. Now we can avoid the new horrible religion they invented, which they had the gall to call "Catholicism".

Mike said...

The Good Lord says heretics are not Catholics, and cannot hold office within her. The fact that this leaves us in a big mess is just something we will have to live through, until some future moment when it becomes clear.

We can't go and contradict Divine Law by accepting heretics as our own because it creates a confusing time of history. We have to let things play out the way God wants them to, and saying heretics are Catholics is not part of His plan.

Mike said...

Dear Ana, on the Gates of Hell:

“Wisdom may fill the hearts of the faithful, and put to silence the dread folly of heretics, fittingly referred to as the gates of Hell.” - St Thomas Aquinas.

“The holy Church built upon a rock, that is Christ, and upon Peter… because by the gates of Hell, that is, by the disputations of hereticswhich lead the vain to destruction, it would never be overcome.” - Denzinger, The Sources of Catholic Dogma.

"We bear in mind what was promised about the holy Church and Him who said the gates of Hell will not prevail against it (by these we understand the death-dealing tongues of heretics) - Pope Vigilius, 553

The Gates of Hell therefore means heresy. If we see heresy flourishing in the "Church of the Council" (as Paul VI famously called it, i.e the Vatican II Church) then we can be sure on Divine authority that this is a different institution to the Catholic Church.

Peter Lamb said...

Every year on June 29, the feast of Saints Peter and Paul, the Society of Saint Pius X confers priestly and diaconate ordinations at its main seminary in Econe, Switzerland. For interest, here is what his Excellency, Mgr. Tissier de Mallerais said about NWO ordinations this year:

"... The Fraternity uses all available means today, in light of the situation in the Church, to transmit to all priests of the Church this truth of the priesthood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the reality of Christ, Priest and King, to communicate this to the whole Church.
This nature of the priest as mediator seems to me to be very simply illustrated in the priestly ordination ceremony.
By the anointing of the priest’s hands, by the tradition of the chalice and the paten, and by the second imposition of the hands accompanied with the power to absolve sins. Now these three rites are accomplished at the end of the ordination when the ordinands are already priests by the silent imposition of the bishop’s hands and the consecratory preface. They are already priests. Nevertheless, the Church insists, through these three secondary rites, on specifying the nature of the priest’s power.
First of all, the anointing of the hands, so beautiful, so meaningful. The priest is no longer a man like others, he is a consecrated man because he receives the anointing of his hands. Anointing the two hands of the ordinand, of the ordained, the priest [bishop] pronounces these words: “Consecrate and sanctify, O Lord, these hands by this unction and our blessing so that whatsoever they shall bless and consecrate be consecrated and made holy, in the name of the Lord.” From now on, dear candidates to the priesthood, you will work wonders, you will consecrate and sanctify. Consecrating at mass, of course, holding the chalice that will become the chalice of the Precious Blood, and holding the paten that will become the paten holding Our Lord Jesus Christ, His immolated Body. Thus, you will consecrate the Holy Eucharist, you will renew sacramentally the sacrifice of the Cross. And you will sanctify souls through your hands, through all the blessings of the Church, through baptism, and through the Holy Communion you will give.
But, dear faithful, this marvelous anointing of the priest’s hands was tampered with [truqué] by the Conciliar Church 46 years ago. Paul VI instituted other words, which say nothing of consecration or sanctification. That is why we preciously safeguard the treasure of these ordination prayers.

Peter Lamb said...

The second rite is the rite of presenting the young priest with the chalice and the paten, with these very clear words: “Receive the power to offer sacrifice to God.” These words you will not find in the other parts of the ordination. Nowhere. It is in this secondary rite that you will ultimately find specified what this priesthood is you are going to receive. “Receive the power to offer sacrifice to God,” and it continues, “and to celebrate masses for the living as well as for the dead, in the name of the Lord.” To celebrate masses, this is quite clear, for the living as well as for the dead.
Not only a sacrifice of praise for the living, but also the sacrifice of expiation and propitiation for the souls in purgatory, who are no longer spoken of in the Church today. Your priesthood is a priesthood having effects for eternity, not only on earth but in Heaven for admitting in souls, and in purgatory for the deliverance of souls.
Archbishop Lefebvre would tell us: “The priest is a man of eternity, who lives not only in time, but whose priesthood has eternal effects.”
But this prayer, once again, was tampered with by the Conciliar Church—the new ordination rite where the bishop presents the chalice and the paten, with the wine and the host, yes, simply saying: “Receive the gifts of the faithful, to offer them to God.” So, what does that mean? You are receiving the gifts of the faithful to offer them to God? Is that all? We are not receiving the gifts of the faithful, we are receiving the gift of God, which is Our Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed on the Cross, to offer Him anew to God the Father. This is the truth! Obviously, we cannot accept this new, tampered with ordination rite, which casts doubts on the validity of numerous ordinations [done] according to the new rite.
And finally, the third beautiful rite—secondary, it is true, but still so important—the power to absolve sins. The priest [bishop] says to the ordinand, as he spreads open his chasuble to signify he shall thenceforth be able to exercise his priesthood and all of his priestly functions: “Receive the Holy Ghost, whose sins thou shalt forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins thou shalt retain, they are retained.” These beautiful words of Our Lord to the Apostles on Easter, on Easter evening, what could be more beautiful? To express this power, which the young priests have already received by the silent imposition of hands and the preface, this is true, but expressing it in an explicit manner, that the priest has the power to forgive sins. You will say but only God can forgive sins. Exactly—the priest is the instrument of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sins.
But, dear faithful, this prayer, this rite of transmitting the power to forgive sins, was simply suppressed in the new rite of ordination. It is no longer mentioned. So this new rite of ordination is not Catholic. And so we shall continue, of course, to faithfully transmit the real and valid priesthood through the traditional rite of priestly ordination.
(“Sermon de Mgr Tissier de Mallerais le 29 juin 2016 à Ecône: qu'en est-il de la validité du nouveau rite d’ordination: ?”, La Porte Latine.)

Mike said...

There have been about 143,300 weeks since St Peter. I think you could be done much sooner than that!

Mike said...

While the exact piece of legislation was probably superceded by Canon 188/4 in the 1917 Code, the principle upon which it is based cannot be revoked, i.e. that heretics are not Catholics and non-Catholics cannot hold office in the Church because they are not members. This cannot be revoked because it is of Divine Law.

God does not permit heretics to rule His Church because they publicly reject His revelation on one or more points, and are by that fact alone ineligible to be considered Catholics. He does not permit Catholics to subject themselves to the authority of heretics, but instead commands that we avoid them. Titus 3:10

Mike said...

A Bishop from the Phillipines, Bishop Lazo joined them a long while back. He was ordained a Priest in the tradtional rite, but consecrated a Bishop in Paul VI's new 1968 rite.

There was no problem with him saying Mass, but he undertook some Confirmations.

There is a copy of a letter available online where +Tissier de Mallerais is asking that he does not perform any more confirmations, but that the ones he did were valid due to common error and supplied jurisdiction. A Priest has the power to Confirm in extraordinary cirumstances or where there is a common error, via supplied jurisdiction.

Bishop Tissier de Mallerais obviously did not regard Bishop Lazo's episcopal consecration as valid, but did accept his priestly ordination as it was in the old rite.

Mike said...

Dear Ana, I meant to address one statement you made, but I forgot until just now.

"Sedes don't offer a way forward".

It is not about offering a way forward. No one really knows how this is going to be fixed, be they conservative Novus Ordo, FSSP, SSPX, or anyone.

All that sedevacantism proposes is what the Church has always taught - which is that, by Divine Law, not merely Canon Law:

1. Heretics are not Catholics, and non-Catholics/heretics cannot hold office within the the Church, because they cannot have authority over the Faithful, nor can they be promoted to office within the Church, up to and including the Holy See, and

2. That the Faithful are to avoid heretics and are forbidden to submit to their authority.

Now ordinarily this presented no problem for the ordinary Catholic faithful or clergy. But in our post-Vatican II world, this is an unprecedented mess, an enormous confusion, a dangerous time.

Does anyone propose the way forward in our time? Apart from holding fast to tradition, and staying with what the Church has always taught, getting to valid Sacraments and staying in the state of Grace, what else is there to do?

The way forward, and the solution to the crisis us unknown to us at this point of history, so don't get jumpy and bend the Divine Law so that you break it, just to have the pseudo-comfort of thinking that a heretic can be a Pope, and that you are allowed to be subject to him.

Peter Lamb said...

Thanks for trying Mike. :)