Do not blame the victims.
It often takes twenty, thirty even forty years for the victims of violence and sexual abuse to find within themselves, the strength to deal with the matter and confront their tormentors. You must give the benefit of the doubt to the victims. A lawyer working on these matters once told me that, at first, he did not believe these accusations, it was just too convenient. But not long after he began defending the Church in a legal sense, he realised that the victims were telling the truth. His advice was to deal with the matter properly, lovingly and effectively with openness and compassion. Believe me when I write, I am simpatico with those victims and have empathy for them for reasons that are harmonious and consistent with their own experiences.
Which brings me to the point with which I wish to get.
There has been suspicion that Josef Ratzinger knew what had happened in Regensburg and that he would be accused of being the "Pope with the abusive brother priest."
If Josef Ratzinger renounced the papacy to protect his brother, himself or the Church from scandal, then that renouncement was under duress.
Yet, the reality is, we do not know the truth. Therefore, there can be no mistaking that Jorge Bergoglio is indeed the Bishop of Rome and that makes him, the Pope. He has been accepted by the priests of Rome.
But let us be clear, there is no expanded "petrine office."
One day, the truth will be known, for now, this is all we have and we have to suffer it.
No, I am wrong, we have Our Lord Jesus Christ with whom we shall remain notwithstanding the rats and cockroaches that have overrun the sinking ship.
22 comments:
Vox,
after Bergogolio's encyclicals (even if he didn't write them), which Catholics are now obligated to treat as valid and binding teaching, not to mention airplain - and Scalfari interviews, sodomite-friendly nominations and faithfulness-unfriendly rants and firings, how can we believe that this is the Vicar of Christ, led by the infallible, Holy Spirit? He demands we submit to him as one allegedly perfectly aligned with the Holy Spirit.
Our doctrines are wrong. He uses them against us, laughing all the way, whenever he is not throwing objects or insults in rage.
Cognitive dissonance runs against the Word and Truth of our Lord. I know it.
There is something very (intrinsically) disordered in the Church of divorce - between man and wife, parent and children, faith/truth and life, theory and practice, pope and Jesus Christ.
I am officially divorced from these liars in the Vatican. They are not my pope, not my cardinals, bishops and priests. They serve the deceiver. One who loves the Way, the Truth and the Life, does not play politics, does not deceive, does not obfuscate, does not refuse to answer questions of those in his care, at least not as modus operandi.
God have mercy on us, for this is hard to live with.
I think that the belief that Pope Benedict's resignation was invalid is not based on supposed duress, but on his (presumed) error that he could retain part of the office of the papacy.
@Paul Morphy,
It has always been my view that Benedict's abdication was not done freely, because Benedict's own justification for his abdication was on the grounds of his health. The fact that he is alive and well 4 years on from his abdication tells it's own tale. Popes die in office. Benedict knows this, we Catholics know this.
What is rather annoying is that Benedict apparently caved in to pressure and abdicated. Granted we cannot know the power of the forces ranged against the papacy. I suspect it is a diabolical power that was working against the papacy. However, we have a power which is far more powerful than anything which the diabolical can muster, and that is Our Lord Jesus Christ. It comes down to a test of faith. Are we prepared to put literally everything on the line for the Faith, even unto physical death? If our faith is properly configured we should be able to do so, confident that this life is transitory and that our own personal sacrifice is merited.
Benedict did blink. I'll not condemn him for that. Each of us are human to a lesser or greater degree. But we do need to know why Benedict blinked. If Benedict disclosed to the world the actual reason why he resigned, he would be doing the world, and himself, a great service.
Fotos you can no more divorce yourself from the visible hierarchical Church than divorce your husband. These man may be evil but they do hold office. Do I say so ? No the Church days so; st Augustine said so over bad bishops . They are wolves but they still have authority
Fotos you can no more divorce yourself from the visible hierarchical Church than divorce your husband. These man may be evil but they do hold office. Do I say so ? No the Church days so; st Augustine said so over bad bishops . They are wolves but they still have authority
I'm with Dorota...
Dorota!
Catholics are NEVER "obligated to treat as valid" anything, no matter what form it takes, when it goes against the Faith and Tradition of the two thousand years of Christ's Church! And no matter who pushes it - the "pope", a cardinal, your bishop or parish priest.
It seems you may be one who's just woken up. Glory to God! The man seated on the Throne of Peter is an antipope whose aim is to tear down the Church from within and take as many souls to hell as possible. Pray your Rosary daily, live the messages of Fatima, and go by a pre-Vatican II Catechism and Scriptures and you will absolutely know error when you see it.
Hopefully the truth is coming out about Benedict's resignation.
A diabolical power has been working against the Papacy (& CC in general) since Bella Dodd's time &, most probably, well before that. It brought about VII & the diabolical interpretations emanating from it. It has also brought about the Apostasy from the top predicted by Our Blessed Lady & the flagrant disobedience of Her requests. It is completely reinterpreting the Ten Commandments & Scripture, disregarding Tradition, denying the Sacred Liturgy of the Tridentine Mass to Catholics worldwide, inventing reasons for establishing the NWO godless one-fits-all religion, fully committed to vastly reducing world population by whatever means & calling those who only want to hear the True Faith being promulgated by the CC as per The Great Commission,vulgar & inappropriate names. These are the Apostates we have been warned against but,, being of diabolical origin we have no control over. Our only help is in the name of Our Lord who, through His Blessed Mother, will eventually come to our aid & usher in Our Lady's Triumph, as this is what He wants to happen.
The true Church is where the fullness of the Faith is upheld. That would not be Rome at the present time. There are so many logical and well- thought out reasons expressed in the comments on this post, that it would take forever too discuss them. Suffice it to say that Bergoglio has lost his ecclesial authority thorough hie promulgation of error--over and over again. He is an antipope unlike any other the Church has seen. According to credible prophecies of the saints. the Church will go underground. Adhering to the claptrap Bergoglio puts out is to betray Christ.
Dear Ana, your comments keep getting better. You pronounce fact after fact; truth after truth; yet you always baulk at the final little step of translating what you know and what you say into logical, consequential action. Listen to St. Paul. Let them be anathema! Stop writing letters to them. Be a faithful Catholic and let them be anathema. The Faith of your Fathers is waiting for you - pure and unadulterated. Embrace it!
Barona, you must know the difference between a bad Pope and an heretical pope?
Dear Dorota, You are not alone.
Dear Barbara, Amen, amen, amen. I love you!!! :)
Regarding the authority of papal encyclicals, I have done some research in the past (easily accessible to all interested), and - unfortunately - must confirm that we the faithful are under it. Pope Pius XII said so, among others. I will rephrase, yet faithfully convey his meaning, by saying that should a controversy exist in the Church, a pronouncement in a papal encyclical is to serve as a definitive voice, one closing the controversy.
I am not even sorry to be the bearer of this bad news. It is high time Catholics started to face reality.
Peer Lamb and Dorota: friends.
To be an heretical Pope the Pope must be tried canonically. To my recollection he has not yet been tried. One cannot divide the visible Church (hierarchical) from an invisible Church(the Mystical Body of Christ). This is heresy. St. Augustine fought against this ideology re: the Donatist. If you believe the pope is an heretic, why become one with him for another heresy?
Do we have a Pope, do we have a hierarchy? Or has it defected? Who is to Judge? Do I have the authority? Do you? The Catholic Church functions on authority, not on individual judgments of who is or who is not a heretic. This is fundamentally protestant. It may not be meant as such, but it is. The last time I checked Cardinal Collins is the Ordinary of Toronto. Do you pledge loyalty to him as your bishop? I DO.
I wrote on this matter before about the possibility of a heretical pope. I noted that a pope can be a material heretic, but not formally, as that requires judgment.
I quote St. Augustine as my authority. Further Vatican I provided us with a modern solution to an heretical pope. But I do know one thing: to break with the visible, hierarchical Church - to unilaterally declare without any authority - that She has defected is, for a layman a schismatical attitude. This can lead to grave sin. Beware friends! The worst tragedy is to leave the Church by another door. Satan wants us out of the Church, it does not matter which door we leave. No, I shall remain. I shall remain with my Mother. I shall remain shivering on the verandah outside, but I shall not wonder off to some Synagogue of Satan.
Let us remain at the bedside of our Mother, keeping vigil and not betraying Her in Her agony. It is not us who should defect, it is the traitors. or better yet: let us pray for their conversion! For my part, I reject schism and heresy!
http://torontocatholicwitness.blogspot.ca/2015/11/if-pope-permits-adulterers-to-receive.html
I have never been so confused and anxious about what is taking place in my beloved Church. I have cut down on reading especially online because I feel it might affect my faith. I trust that in all things God will make the outcome right however in the meantime our clerics seem to be running with their own agendas and that is hurting many faithful.
Yes, I have finally within recent weeks come to the FULL realization that Bergoglio is an ANTI POPE. We are NOT obligated to follow his APOSTASY into hell. Because the 'Church' considers him 'The Pope' he is 'The Pope'?? NONSENSE!! His 'Bishops' are in error. That does NOT mean that I will not go to Mass as usual. That DOES NOT mean I will not receive the Sacraments of the Church AS USUAL.....NOT UNTIL...he turns the MASS into a PAGAN RITUAL. Not realized by a large portion of the Catholic faithful, he is not only planning on turning the N.O. Mass into PAGANISM, he is planning also to alter the Traditional Mass. God help us to find real Priests that will help us to participate in the MASS as the Lord God intended, when that happens. God help us to receive the true Sacraments of his Church, when that happens. We will know when it does....WE WILL KNOW.
Thank You, Barona. Your kindness causes me to tear up.
I know God knows my heart and I pray He forgives me. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. I would be lost and hopeless without Him.
Whatever the Church teaches which would compel me to acknowledge Jorge Maria Bergoglio as the Vicar of Christ, I can not in good conscience accept. To do so in face of such machinations, injustices, unfaithfulness, mockery - to put it simply - evil, is no longer possible.
Barona, thank You again for your kindness. May God bless You. May God forgive me.
Barona, I also appreciate your good intentions, but there are a few things to be cleared up. There is widespread ignorance of the difference between a "bad" Pope and an heretical pope.
The "bad", or "evil" Pope sins against MORALS. Your quote from Grabowski is perfectly correct. What is said there is Catholic doctrine: " Bad bishops, may have jurisdictional powers and authority and belong to the Church, like all sinners not separated from it, but they do not participate in the life of grace. They are NOT however SEVERED either from the external Church or the mystical body..."
This is true. A "bad" Pope remains a true Pope. We are agreed.
An heretical pope is altogether another kettle of fish, because he sins against FAITH and as Pope Pius XII said, public heresy precludes one from membership in the Church altogether:
“Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith… For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or HERESY or apostasy…”
(Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Mystici Corporis, nn. 22-23).
An heretic denies the Faith and thereby EXCOMMUNICATES HIMSELF, by committing the SIN of heresy against DIVINE law. He loses his Office, Membership of the Church, and Authority IPSO FACTO. He is deposed by God WITHOUT ANY DECLARATION by anybody else:
“…a manifestly heretical Pope per se ceases to be Pope and Head, just as per se he ceases to be a Christian and member of the body of the Church. Therefore he can be judged by the Church and punished. This is the opinion of all the old Fathers, who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction.”
(St. Robert Bellarmine, De Romano Pontifice, Book II, Ch. 30; in Controversies of the Christian Faith, trans. by Fr. Kenneth Baker [Keep the Faith, 2016], p. 839.
If someone is not even capable of being a member of the Church on account of public heresy, then much less could he be the head of the Church! This stands to reason, for “it is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church” (Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Satis Cognitum, n. 15.
Bull of Pope Paul IV — Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio, 1559 :
“Further, if ever it should appear that any bishop (even one acting as
an archbishop, patriarch or primate), or a cardinal of the Roman
Church, or a legate (as mentioned above), or even the Roman Pontiff
(whether prior to his promotion to cardinal, or prior to his election
as Roman Pontiff), has beforehand deviated from the Catholic faith or
fallen into any heresy, We enact, decree, determine and define: —
“Such promotion or election in and of itself, even with the agreement
and unanimous consent of all the cardinals, shall be null, legally
invalid and void. — “It shall not be possible for such a promotion or
election to be deemed valid or to be valid, neither through reception
of office, consecration, subsequent administration, or possession, nor
even through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff himself,
together with the veneration and obedience accorded him by all. [AND THAT MY DEAR VOX INCLUDES THE PRIESTS OF ROME :)] —
“Such promotion or election, shall not through any lapse of tune in
the foregoing situation, be considered even partially legitimate in
any way . . .— “Each and all of the words, as acts, laws, appointments
of those so promoted or elected —and indeed, whatsoever flows
therefrom — shall be lacking in force, and shall grant no stability
and legal power to anyone whatsoever. — “Those so promoted or elected,
by that very fact and WITHOUT NEED TO MAKE ANY FURTHER DECLARATION, shall be deprived of any dignity, position, honor, title, authority, office and power.”
Coronata — Institutions Juris Canonici, 1950: "...if the Roman Pontiff were to profess heresy, before any condemnatory sentence (which would be impossible
anyway) he would lose his authority.”
Billot — De Ecclesia, 1927 – “Given, therefore, the HYPOTHESIS of a
pope who would become notoriously heretical, one must concede without
hesitation that he would by that very fact lose the pontifical power,
insofar as, having become an unbeliever, he would by his own will be
cast outside the body of the Church.”
St. Francis de Sales: – “Now when the Pope is explicitly a heretic, he
falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church . . . ”
St. Alphonsus Liguori: – “If ever a Pope, as a private person, should
fall into heresy, he should at once fall from the Pontificate. IF,
however, God were to permit a pope to become a notorious and
contumacious heretic, he would by such fact cease to be pope, and the
apostolic chair would be vacant.”
St. Antoninus: – “In the case in which the Pope would become a
heretic, he would find himself, by that very fact alone and WITHOUT ANY OTHER SENTENCE, separated from the Church. A head separated from a
body cannot, as long as it remains separated, be head of the same body
from which it was cut off.”
Wernz-Vidal — Canon Law, 1943 – “Through notorious and openly divulged
heresy, the Roman Pontiff, should he fall into heresy, by that very
fact (ipso facto) is deemed to be deprived of the power of
jurisdiction even BEFORE ANY DECLATORY JUDGEMENT BY THE CHURCH… A
Pope who falls into public heresy would cease ipso facto to be a
member of the Church; therefore, he would also cease to be head of the
Church.” And also: “A doubtful pope is no pope.”
Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913 – “The Pope himself, if notoriously guilty
of heresy, would cease to be Pope because he would cease to be a
member of the Church.”
I will stop there for some sort of brevity. I could give you plenty more. :)
Point is a bad Pope remains Pope; an heretic cannot become Pope and IF a true Pope were to become a public heretic he is automatically deposed by Divine law.
" I noted that a pope can be a material heretic, but not formally, as that requires judgment."
Not so. Confusion about this terminology is also widespread.
A MATERIAL heretic is one who speaks heresy in ignorance of the fact that he is speaking heresy. He does not commit sin, because he does not know that what he is saying contradicts Catholic doctrine.
An OCCULT heretic keeps his heresy secret to himself - he tells nobody else about it.
A PUBLIC, or NOTORIUS, or MANIFEST, or FORMAL heretic makes his heresy known to others - even to just one other person. All these terms mean the same thing.
Formal heresy and judgement have nothing at all to do with each other.
A PERTINACEOUS heretic is one who KNOWINGLY spreads heresy. It does NOT mean persistently, or repeatedly, or obstinately pronouncing heresy.
A heretic also commits a CRIME against CANON law. This is where DECLARATION comes in. The man is already deposed by Divine law, but now for purposes of GOOD CHURCH GOVERNANCE ONLY, the proper authorities may order a trial and, if convicted of the CRIME of heresy, officially depose the heretic from Office.
Why did St. Paul say two warnings were necessary? He said this so that a material heretic would not be mistakenly convicted. Those were early days and the Faith was spreading. People were hearing it for the first time. A man could easily misunderstand a point and spread something false in all innocence. The warnings were to inform him of his mistake and to clarify the correct teaching to him. If thereafter he persisted in false teaching, he was a formal heretic.
There is much more I would like to say about your post, but many will say I've said too much already. :)
Dear Dorota you are on the right track. Your sensus Catholicus is alive and well. God bless you.
Hopefully no other secrets ...
In this case, I would judge the sinner AND the sin. Lord, have pity and sympathy for those boys who were horribly abused, and are now men.
@ TLM
Do you think it likely that those who consider Jorge Bergolio the Vicar of Christ might follow him, should he deny Jesus Christ as the Way, the Truth and the Life - for the sake of peace and unity of all humanity, of course?
I do.
What has been happening is gradualism - a gradual progression of a false ecumenism, rejection of doctrines (divisive), separation of faith from every-day life (too idealistic and not realistic to not be a hypocrite) - all coming from the pope. Also, we have a slow introduction of communion as a meal - for everyone who will show up. There is much more I could list, but you know it all. Bergoglio has created a different religion, that has little to do with Christianity.
I am of the opinion that all people, including a pope, have a right to change their mind. Perhaps Bergoglio has been loosing his faith for a while. Should it be the case, however, he should have declared himself a non-Catholic. To pull the whole Church into his non-belief or non-Catholic belief as a higher form of Catholicism is the height of ungodliness, arrogance and dishonesty.
Since he rejects Catholic teaching, mocks and ridicules it, he should leave. But personal virtue (honour, honesty and such) is not in the realm of his interests. He prefers a false unity of the irreconcilable based on the lowest common denominator of all humanity (which is really low, considering that abortionists, active sexual perverts and envious, angry communists are included), materialism, hedonism, ideological dogmatism, all tied with a bow of universal salvation.
No one understands us or this situation better than Our Lord, and He certainly knows how confusing this is for us to interpret. I worry about things but not that, because I know He understands. How could be possibly know with all certainty what to do in this situation when this is entirely new, not just to us, but in Church history. This situation has never happened. Bad popes, yes, but not bad popes doing what this one is doing.
We are at the Latin Rite now, but hear tell they are gunning for that too. If they wreck it, we'll find the best we can, read the Bible, pray the rosary, try to live holy lives, and stay disconnected from the rest of it. I'll tell you what we will definitely not do. We will not financially or in any other way support this evil, NO Church.
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