Monday, 5 September 2016

Is the "verbal duel" caused by Pope Francis affecting Catholic leaning to Clinton?

If I were an American, I would vote for Donald Trump. Two reasons, because I am a conservative, and, because, I am a Catholic. 

Donald Trump is a human being with flaws, just as I am. Hillary Clinton is best described as a fundamentally flawed human being. Frankly, she is evil.

Donald Trump is not a perfect candidate for a Catholic, none of those in any of the primaries were. The closest was probably Dr. Ben Carson from a morals and policy point of view. 

Hillary Clinton is fundamentally not someone for whom any Catholic can vote. With Donald Trump, there is some hope, that through a Supreme Court under his watch, the matter of abortion might eventually be addressed. With Hilary Clinton, it never will be addressed and the matter will get only worse. She will radically continue Obama's policies, and, extend them. 

In an article in Conservative Review the matter of Catholics dramatically shifting to Hilary Clinton deals with some rather startling statistics.

Image result for trump pope
I was rather surprised to read that one reason is a "verbal duel" that Donald Trump allegedly had with Pope Francis. A duel caused by Bergoglio! 

My recollection is that some bishop or advisor in Mexico suggested that the Pope should think in a certain manner about a "wall" and that a question was planted by a Mexican or Hispanic reporter on the aeroplane back to Rome. Once again, Bergoglio blurted out a statement that he had no business stating.

Bergoglio, covertly referring to Donald Trump said that he was not a "Christian" because he would build "walls."

Trump handled the unjustified and obnoxious attack by the Pope quite well, knowing he could not win it. He was quite justified in his initial comment that any religious leader to question the faith of a person was "disgraceful" and the pope was being used by Mexico "as a pawn." 

Trump was right. Bergoglio's comment was disgraceful and he was being used, though, I have no doubt he was a willing pawn.

As a Catholic, I was embarrassed by this outrageous and unjustified statement by the Bishop of Rome.

Human migration is a big issue for this Francis. He is entitled to his opinion. He is not entitled the facts or to tell nations how they should govern themselves in affairs that are none of his business. Nation states have the fundamental right to protect their borders and live in security.

For a man who has a whole floor of a hotel reserved empty for his own protection, he is one to talk about security. For a man who lives in a State protected by walls and massive security, with guns, I should add, he is one to talk about, "building walls!" 

Catholics in Canada voted en masse for Justin Trudeau, a Catholic and a man who demanded that all candidates would be pro-abortion and who has just ushered in euthanasia. American Catholics may be about to do the same with Hillary Clinton who will fight any attempt by States to limit abortion and ensure that a Supreme Court will never overturn Roe vs. Wade. 

To Trudeau and Clinton, abortion is a sacrament! There is not enough blood to satisfy these two.

If Catholics vote in large numbers for Hilary Clinton, as they are expected to do, and if any do it because of a non-existent "verbal duel" which was a one-sided attack by the Bishop or Rome himself, history will judge Catholics and this Bishop or Rome, extremely harshly.

If you are a Catholic and you vote for Hillary Clinton, God help you.

The judging won't just be by history.


Dan said...

I have a hard time seeing this as anything more than a psyop campaign brought to you by what used to be the news media.

It's all propaganda now.

Unknown said...

Clinton is evil, that is true. But it is a massive understatement that Trump is "not perfect." He is a man of exactly zero character (yes, Clinton's character is measured in negative numbers, but that changes noting about Trump). The fact that the party of "family values" has nominated a man who not only admitted but bragged about bedding other mens' wives should be horrifying for right-thinking individuals. The truth is that Trump shows every sign of being willing to jettison his current conservative "values" just as soon as something prettier comes along, just like he jettisoned wive number 1 for wife number 2 and wife number 2 for wife number 3, the porn model. This American will be voting for a third party candidate, Darrell Castle, who also is not perfect but a far sight better than Donald Trump.

Anonymous said...

Who's Darrell Castle? This American never heard of him. Link, please!

Maudie N Mandeville said...

The American Catholic vote needs to be looked at as two separate entities, white and Hispanic. In '08, Catholics voted 54% for Obama. In '12 it dropped to 50%. However, looking at it as white and Hispanic, whites voted 47% for Obama in '08, dropping to 40% in '12. Hispanics, on the other hand, increased their vote for Obama from 72% to 75%. No wonder the USCCB is so supportive of illegal immigration (and the hundreds of millions that Catholic Charities receives from Obama's largesse for 'resettling' the illegals ain't bad, either).

JayBee said...

The "zero character" argument does not hold water. In the past 100 years the USA has had exactly 1 president with a high moral character, Ronald Reagan.

We are electing the leader of the world as well as the most powerful man in the world. His first duty: protect our nation so we may all live our values - as defined by our religion, not the State.

If you are looking for someone to lead the Boy Scouts or the Knights of Columbus, then admittedly Trump is not your man. If you want a patriot who will defend our boundaries and our Constitution, there is only 1 person you can vote for. Don't be a prissy milquetoast whiner, get over it and vote Trump.

Eirene said...

Here in far flung Australia, about two Federal Elections ago, the Archbishop of Brisbane was quoted - in his favourite newspaper (published once a week and distributed throughout the Diocese on Sundays) - as saying ,"There is no such thing as a Catholic vote." Now some three years later I m still wondering what he meant! Any ideas anyone?

Barbara Jensen said...

To say that Donald Trump 'has no character' is so far off the mark there are no words to refute such ignorance. Yes, he is flawed, as is each human person, with the exception of Christ and His Mother. The frenzied critics of Trump do not allow for any human growth on his part over the years and they disqualify the possibility of any altruistic motives in him. This is so very unfair, and not backed up with facts.
If Hillary Clinton is elected President of the United States, we will see in America what we are seeing in Europe: the deluge of unvetted immigrants, many of whom will come to rape and pillage in ISIS fashion. Hillary will love that because she is George Soros puppet and has no love for the United States. United with Soros in the intention to uproot western culture in order to create a one world government, she will work to fulfill the tragic result of the globalist cabal. Bergoglio is part and parcel of that evil force and those Catholics too stupid to see what is happening right under their noses will get what they deserve if they vote for Hillary Clinton. If Trump's assertiveness toward the idiotic antipope of Rome causes them to shift toward crooked Hillary, there is no hope for that level of vapid thinking. They will get what they deserve.

Theresa said...

Those who take issue with Mr Trump need to take a long hard look at the personal lives of a good number of our past Presidents....nothing too complimentary I'm afraid. Issues are vital and the reversal of the Johnson act along with the appt of a Supreme Court justice with True Christian Values is so important along with properly vetting people who enter this country....Dinesh D'Sousa has dymythed the Democratic party's hold on being the true champions of civil rights. The road ahead is going to be fraught with difficulties, we need to regroup as quickly as possible, fervently praying for the restoration of Christ The King through Our Lady's interventions and this is something all countries need desperately!

TLM said...

As distasteful as Donald Trump is, (and he IS that!) he at least proposes to hold up social values that should be held dear to all Catholics, in fact not ONLY Catholics but ALL CHRISTIAN MORAL PEOPLE. He is also proposing to get rid of the 'Johnson Amendment' that hogties Catholic and Christian Pastors from speaking out publicly about governmental laws, candidates etc. for fear of taxation. On the other hand, Hillary R. Clinton is SO OVER THE TOP EVIL, and is actually proposing the OPPOSITE, that any Catholic that votes for her will be absolutely judged by Our Lord and Savior on Judgement Day. I fear for them truly. And if Catholics vote for anyone other than Trump, or even no one at all, as hard as it may be, is essentially voting for the 'Hillary Demon'. It's as simple and distasteful as that!

To tell you the truth, I would vote for WHOEVER is running against her on the Republican ticket. Voting for anyone else, Green Ticket or whatever ticket, is giving the vote to Hillary, and throwing the election to her. It may not matter, because the 'powers that be' may be able to rig the election to get her in anyway, but at least we can go to the Lord and say we did what we could to keep her out. For me and my house, we will do the best we can to keep the Satanic Witch out of the Oval Office, even if Donald Trump has his own immoral problems. NOTHING AND NO ONE can compare to the SHEER EVILNESS of Hillary Clinton.

Mark Thomas said...

Donald Trump supports abortion. He supports abortion in cases of "rape, incest, and life of the mother." As Donald supports abortion, I would think that Catholics who believe in the Church's pro-life teachings would not vote for Donald Trump.

As Donald Trump supports abortion, would not a vote for Donald Trump translate into a vote for Satan's Culture of Death?


Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Vox, I know that you have spoken well of LifeSiteNews. They reported the following:

-- Trump acceptance speech the first in history, from both parties, to mention ‘LGBTQ community’

CLEVELAND, July 22, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – He may be the Republican presidential nominee, but Donald Trump’s acceptance speech made bipartisan history last night. His acceptance speech at Cleveland's Quicken Loans Arena last night marked the first time any major political party candidate ever mentioned “the LGBTQ community.”

"Awesome!” said Gregory T. Angelo, president of the Log Cabin Republicans. “We witnessed a total transformation of the GOP tonight,” Angelo said last night. “No turning back now.”

The 2016 RNC became the first Republican convention ever to hear from an openly homosexual speaker, as Paypal co-founder Peter Thiel announced, “I am proud to be gay” to a rousing ovation.

Mr. Trump also gave the first Republican presidential acceptance speech in 36 years not to mention abortion in any way, shape, or form.


Also from LifesiteNews:

-- Donald Trump gives first GOP acceptance speech in decades not to mention abortion

CLEVELAND, July 22, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – Donald Trump’s acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention last night was the first in 36 years not to mention abortion in any way.

This year's Republican National Convention was also the first to feature a speech from an openly gay man, Paypal co-founder Peter Thiel.

It will be interesting to see whether Catholics who take seriously the Church's Culture of Life teachings will vote for Donald Trump.


Mark Thomas

Vox Cantoris said...

You raise an important point, Mark. He is not and can not be described as "Pro Life." He has made statements in the past supporting abortion. His answers during the primaries to a question when asked about prison for the mother revealed that he never really thought the matter through.

What are the known, knowns?

It is primarily around the Supreme Court and the VP pick. Kaine is a Catholic and as pro-abortion as Hillary. Pence is a former Catholic but is solidly, Pro Life. Kaine would have no influence over Clinton, Pence may have influence in this regard over Trump.

Clinton will make matters worse. Trump has said he will appoint Supreme Court judges to eventually deal with the problem, federal legislation is just not possible. You know your system better than I.

In our recent Canadian election we had Liberals under a Catholic, Trudeau, holding a position even more extreme than Clinton, I would think that there are Pro Life Democrat Senators and Representatives, not something tolerated by Trudeau.

Harper and the Conservatives did nothing to help the cause other than to stop funding for abortions through foreign aid which Trudeau has reversed. But, the official party policy leans to "Life" and while they did not nothing to help, it was not part of the party platform, it was neutral.

I think the situations are similar.

Voting for Trump is not voting for the lesser of two evils. It would be, in my view, voting to try to do less evil and to hope that an effort could be made to reverse the trend.

There is no whole loaf of bread here. There are only crumbs.

We need to gather the crumbs while we work to bake a new loaf.

Vox Cantoris said...


Sometimes you need to build a bridge across a river. The best engineer you can find is vulgar, cussing, arrogant man, but he can build you the best darn bridge anywhere. It will be on time and on budget and it will be safe for those who cross it.

Sometimes you just need the right engineer and put up with his foibles.

Here in Canada, we have had Catholic Prime Minister for forty of the the last fifty years. What good did it do us?

Let's at least get a decent bridge built.

Mark Thomas said...

Vox, in regard to the "verbal duel" between His Holiness Pope Francis and Donald Trump:

News media outlets reported that Pope Francis declared that Donald Trump was not a Christian. Initially, Donald Trump had accepted those reports as factual. His first response was one of outrage directed at Pope Francis.

Later that day, Donald Trump read Pope Francis' actual comments in question. Donald Trump then denounced the news media for having misrepresented Pope Francis' comments in question. Pope Francis did not say that Donald Trump wasn't a Christian.

That night, on CNN, denounced the news media for having "misrepresented" Pope Francis' comments in question. Donald Trump said of Pope Francis: I like his personality; I like what he represents...a wonderful guy."

CNN later acknowledged the following:

"Trump called the Pope a "wonderful guy" and blamed the day's drama on the press. I think he said something much softer than was originally reported by the media."


Mark Thomas

M. Prodigal said...

Catholics put the obamination in office. My liberal relatives are all about the evil woman. Evil woman. And there are plenty of clergy and others who will also vote that way.
If Catholics truly lived what the Church teaches, there would be no question of such evil ones attaining office but they do not and have not. The majority are uncatechized now just to begin with. But if Catholics truly lived their faith, it would again change the world.

Johnno said...

Mark Thomas -

Unfortunately for you, Pope Francis has directly contradicted Catholic doctrine about States managing and protecting their borders and in fact did accurately state Trump's position -

"Pope Francis said Thursday that GOP front-runner Donald Trump "is not Christian" if he calls for the deportation of undocumented immigrants and pledges to build a wall between the United States and Mexico.

The Pope, who was traveling back to Rome from Mexico, where he urged the United States to address the "humanitarian crisis" on its southern border, did not tell American Catholics not to vote for Trump.

But Francis left little doubt where he stood on the polarizing issue of immigration reform.

"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel," the Pope told journalists who asked his opinion on Trump's proposals to halt illegal immigration."

So contrary to Fr. Lombardi's excuses that you quote and Trump's gesture to back away, Pope Francis has interfered with the U.S. election to slam Donald Trump.

So Donald Trump just decided to wave the flag, but Pope Francis' comments still stand on record, on video. There was no misquotation, and Francis did not in fact get Trump's position wrong, but rather, the erroneously contradicted the position of the Church on such matters.

The Pope is also a hypocrite as pointed out in the CNN article
Trump social media director Dan Scavino suggested the pontiff's comments were hypocritical. "Amazing comments from the Pope- considering Vatican City is 100% surrounded by massive walls," he tweeted.

Pope Francis also added:
Asked whether American Catholics should vote for Trump, Francis demurred.
"As far as what you said about whether I would advise to vote or not to vote, I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this man is not Christian if he has said things like that."

So all nuances about benefit of the doubt aside, Francis got Trump's position right, so therefore his remarks hold, and his remarks contradict the Church and provided a target for the Democrat Party to hit upon. Let's also not forget that Bernie Sanders, another open communist, was also a big guest at the Vatican by Francis during the time he was still running in a fixed election.

Johnno said...

And let's all hear what Mark Thomas thinks...

Mark Thomas, are you American? What are you going to do for the election?

- Vote Hillary
- Vote Trump
- Vote Third Party - if so, who?
- Not Vote

And who did you vote for last election?

Please answer, we want to get some more insight into your 'Catholic-ness.'

Anonymous said...

I was going to say that Trump seems to have surrounded himself with people that people of faith/staunch pro-lifers can be comfortable with. Because holiness lies in realism, I do not want to be overly optimistic, but I am still going to pray for Trump, vote for him, and hope for the very best for our country and the world. Why? Because ALL CATHOLICS have a responsibility to LIMIT EVIL when, where, and how they are able, and I sincerely feel that this is what a vote for Trump would do.

Father Pavone always talked about the importance of limiting evil when voting, but he never quite laid the principle out quite as clearly as it was explained in this homily. This priest says that limiting evil is a totally valid option for Catholics, if one's individual conscience allows it, and that even Popes have done so many times, in licit efforts to stave off what they perceived as more severe evils on the horizon if nothing is done. The priest even adds that the Vatican even entered into a concordat with Hitler in his time, and that this may not have been the best thing to do in hindsight, but that it still was not immoral. Is Donald worse than Hitler? Certainly not! And he is surely better than Hillary. All Catholics with qualms about voting for Trump (and all Catholics in general, IMO!) should hear this talk before they vote--or don't vote, whatever the case may be!

PS Part 2 of the talk is probably great, too, and very informative, though not about voting. Love most of the videos on this YouTube Channel!