Last night on the Facebook of Steve Skojec of OnePeterFive, I read a comment of his to a post by Ann Barnhardt. The comments back were deplorable and shameful. I won't quote them or link them but they are degrading to Ann, notwithstanding her original post.
Voris once again recently called the Society of St. Pius X schismatic. Voris and Skojec have enmity. Verrecchio and Voris have enmity. Skojec and Voris. Skojec and Verrecchio? Michael Matt and The Remnant seem to be hated by everyone. Hilary White detests everyone.
The SSPX is not the problem.
Sedevacantists, whom I allow to comment here, are not the problem. They have reacted to a scandalous situation the best way they know how. I have more in common with my sedevacantist friend in South Africa than with the Catholics in my diocesan territorial parish.
The SSPX and Sedes are the least of the problem.
This writer has for months been hearing "rumours" now confirmed, of gossip, calumny and detraction against him here in my own Archdiocese. I have put up with at least seven years of public defamation. I have gone to priests to seek remedy who have done nothing to help, but I am thankful to the three who were not cowards, who did and I thank them.
On a personal note, the worst part is that these people ate my food, enjoyed my drink and the hospitality of my wife and me all the while sharing in defamation and calumny. I've been called divisive, toxic and diagnosed as suffering from a "messiah complex." I am somehow responsible for all the failures of the Latin Mass in Toronto to thrive and grow (neither are true." It is allegedly the fault of this writer that certain priests no longer "offer" the Holy Mass publicly and that one wanted out of the "circuit" and back into a novus ordo pastorship. This writer and his wife have been publicly accused of adultery by a certain blogger and another group of so-called Catholics tried to discredit my name with the Foederatio Internationalis Una Voce which included slandering my character and good name to the entire Governing Council. One youngster even demanded that I remove myself from any work as I was accused of "being a bad example" to youth, though nobody could tell me how. This blog has been accused by all these of being "polemical" and discrediting that Latin Mass and traditional movement. I was even accused by some ecclesiastical officials in Toronto of deceiving a priest by booking a church for a concert and substituting, surreptitiously, with a Latin Mass. To this day, the priest who brought this accusation to me in his own accusatory manner has yet to confirm if he corrected the calumniators nor apologize for his own rash judgement.
I'm now accused of being a "Neo-Trad!" what that means.
More? My support of Donald J. Trump as President of the United States and Douglas Ford as Premier of Ontario gives a bad name to the Latin Mass movement and shows that I'm really a modernist and closet Freemason because I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of the press. My wife has been looked down upon for applauding Kelly Ann Conway and told she was supporting a "feminist." Did I write that this Catholic "wife" is a freelance "journalist" who deplores "freedom of the press" because it is masonic and whose very abode is dependent on the Crown worn by a Monarch who is head of schismatic and heretical sect? I am allegedly "toxic" which is what the person declared in public regarding me.
Yet, in spite of all of this sorry defamation, notwithstanding Rosica's frivolous and vexatious lawsuit and more behind the scenes, notwithstanding a certain episcopal leader pounding his fist on the desk at the mention of my name; in spite of it all, I'm still here. Still working, still chanting in two dioceses and still organising Latin Masses for the faithful who can come if they want or not. I am still training and teaching those who want to learn to chant in spite of the fact that others in a disgraceful show of snobbery, don't think the neophytes good enough.
The Devil hates you, he hates me. He hates Christ and His Church and he hates the Latin Mass and the work needed to carry out its growth.
Skojec, Voris, Barnhardt and the others all do good, they could all do better if they laid down their swords. Those people that have undermined this writer and my work (and they know who they are). They are shameful, cowardly and deceitful and they have been told. All of this proves that the Devil does not want peace. All those that have done the above are the ones who are divisive. These people have segregated Catholics into Conservative or Neo-Cath, or Neo-Trad or Rad-Trad, Mad-Trad and Glad-Trad and it must stop. They are the divisive ones. They are the ones bringing shame upon the movement. Not this writer.
Now, I am off my for my therapy for my delusions of grandeur and messiah complex and then make mincemeat which the above calumniators and gossipers will not enjoy this Christmas.
No, not one!
No, not one!
65 comments:
Amen Vox. They should lay down their swords. It's disturbing, and actually made me question the Church lately, on top of everything else. God bless you.
Osusanna, the Church is real, it is the Bride of Christ, stay close to Him in these terrible times.
Thank you.
David
Vox, keep up the good fight! These are disturbing times. I see many divisions in my own parish and the communities I belong to. I think many are frustrated, and instead of keeping the heat on the source of the problems in the Church, they turn to picking on other people who are within reach. Also, there are some people who are pharisees; keeping a "holy" appearance ,yet their hearts are like stone. Pray for them!
Osusanna-please don't question the Church, it's not her fault. If a person driving a vehicle is a bad driver, would you question the vehicle or the driver? Right now we have a vehicle full of clowns and miscreants that are willing to wreck the vehicle. Please pray for Holy Mother Church, and for Jesus to cleanse and purify the the Church.
So sorry to hear this. Ann Barnhardt’s post was wicked and it was designed to provoke people to bad behavior. That’s not good. Anyway, we are divided and things will only get worse until we have a Pope. I wish for a Pope for Christmas. I’d take Pope Michael, he seems Catholic. Really, any of the Catholic men that I’ve known personally would do fine. If we could just get a guy in there who happens to be Catholic, that’d be good. The Holy Ghost can just take it from there. Come on you theologians and canon lawyers, can’t you figure out a way to just elect a Pope, how hard can this be? As a matter of fact, I’m sick of waiting on you idiots. I’m following Pope Michael in Kansas. Thank you Pope Michael’s Mom, the most competent Catholic in the entire world! Not sure, if I have any Priests or anything of that nature but what can you do? Thank you for the beautiful music Vox Cantoris, I’ve been enjoying it as I decorate and cook and shop and I hope that you and your family ignore being treated miserably and enjoy a blessed Advent and Christmas with each other. May God bless you all and keep you close.
Vox,
I have been following your blog for some months now, and have found it helpful and encouraging. Your featured links to posts at other sites is a valuable resource. I also read the authors/blogs that you mention and have learned from them.
It is disheartening to see so much “friendly” fire. Perhaps more charity and humility are called for by everyone? But, I have only recently realized how much of the Church's patrimony has been lost, and all of you have been engaged in the struggle for restoration for years. A certain combativeness is understandable, given the risks taken and sacrifices made.
Thank you, and all of those, who have dedicated themselves to restoring our Mother to her dignity, truth and beauty.
Mike R
David, the devil has divided, but blame not the sheep ! The Shepherds have scattered the poor flock
"Smite the Shepherd and the flock will be scattered." One of the 48 Laws of power and of course the Word of God.
"Blessed is the one who does not fall away on account of Me."
The devil loves diversity. Every road but one leads to hell and fellowship with him. Cacophony. Noise. Opinions. Positions. Advantage. These are the currency of hell.
Our Lord loves unity. Unity is the defining feature of the Catholic Church through time into eternity. The Latin Mass is our visible sign of unity across the ages and language barriers throughout the world. One Lord - Monarchy under our Lord. One Church. One Mass. One Faith. One Truth. One road; one straight narrow road through a small gate that leads to heaven - paradise in the presence of our One Lord behind His One Body of People.
I agree with Michael Matt of the Remnant today, who complements your fantastic contribution here: go to the source of disunity. Stop attacking all the symptoms of disunity. Vatican II is where it went off the rails. Most specifically, the “Spirit” of V II must be crushed. It will be crushed, wither by us participating in the glorious conflict or by God Himself. It will end. It will die a most ignominious death.
Unity in Truth centered on the Mass of Ages: *That* is our glorious future.
Yes, division is the devil's tool for sure. I hate to see others who love the Traditions of the Church bad mouth, accuse, and call out others who are actually on their same side. That is sinful actually. But if the enemy can keep us divided and make hearts hard and bitter, then we cannot move forward in strength. We may have different ideas on how to go about it but we want the same thing: our Church back from the evil ones who have the most power now.
One must also blame the sheep, Anonymous. The sheep are not as innocent as they are made out to be.
Enough is enough. This infighting must stop immediately.
Despite whose ever best intentioned theory, argument or position,
two truths remain:
1) GOD IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN IN CHARGE
2) We know jack squat. (Even after this blows over, it may take a while to understand it).
I suggest they have a mini conference, get all their issues out, and make peace. Then we can all get back to fighting the only enemy we have: “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places” Ep. 6:12
In about 2012, I perceived that ALL news outlets were biased and had the agendas of their owners and financial backers. I began looking at ALL news outlets "from a distance" as it were, realizing that NONE of them were trustworthy. In the past year, I have watched almost no news channels or programs. I have more immersed myself in the "news" of the Catholic world, narrowing my attention to various traditional sites. Now, all these site persons are fighting each other with viciousness that does not exhibit a scintilla of the gift of love that the presence of the Holy Spirit would give. I love you all, Vox, Matt, Skojec and Ann, but this indicates to me that under your glaze of traditional frosting, there lies the rot of ego and power and hatred, which you all claim to oppose. So, goodbye for now. You have all joined the untrustworthy ranks of FOX, CNN and all network news.
Vito, you have clearly missed my point and have rashly judged. I am now or have been friendly with all of these. Not one of them is an enemy of mine, none have been chastised on this blog and as for "power" I will say that I earn no income from this, unlike all the rest, which is fine.
Irenaeus,
That is why they are called "dumb sheep".
How much more will be required from those who know better?
May I recommend that when things like this happen, after your therapy, or during it even, you sit back and meditate with a glass of good scotch and a fine cigar. Works wonders for me.
Dear Vox
I live in central Saskatchewan, a barren spiritual wasteland. Your column is the first one I go to every morning; it speaks to me of the Catholic faith, the Catholic Church. Thank you. Don't ever change.
Leah
Yes, the pot shots are out of hand.
First, I think it's because it's Advent. GREAT spiritual progress can be made on gaining in detachment and virtue during Advent and the devil HATES it and works overtime.
Next, Social Media is straight from the devil.
Seriously.
It feeds whatever is the individual's primary weakness. And it covers them all.
Being a fallen daughter of Eve I have avoided it with a healthy fear and understanding of the danger it represents to me.
Where it can be entirely eliminated, and for MOST of us it CAN be entirely eliminated, that is for the best.
For those that can not entirely eliminate it they must very NARROWLY and STRICTLY define exactly what they will use it for and otherwise WALK AWAY.
I firmly believe that would cut down a lot of the rancor out and about.
As for the rest, it would really help if the bigger players would take a serious break away from the PC, hopefully to pray, before firing a salvo at a fellow trad (of whatever stripe). Then when they come back to it they may well choose a better approach.
And that goes for the various pot shots one reads where one knows who is being referenced even though the name isn't used - still pretty cruddy.
It's not too late for a holy Advent.
Besides the devil, Francis is also doing quite a good job of dividing.... what could that mean?.....
Vox, I'm sorry. It is too bad there is so much division right now. As was said, Satan loves division and people in today's tense world just naturally fall into it as well. As Christians we ought to do better, but we often don't. I've observed this many times in the workplace. It can be really disturbing.
Sometimes I've wondered if God kind of prunes our support systems at times. It seems like everybody disappears at the same time, leaving us to rely on God alone. Sometimes life is a lonely business.
I don't pay too much attention to what anybody says anymore, even in the Catholic blogosphere. It's all opinion. I think sometimes people go off the rails. These are crazy days, truly, crazy, but you have to face what you can't change, and God is in control at all times. If the Church goes up in flames, our only option is to read Scripture and stay frosty, as best we can. No matter what, we stay Catholic as best we can. I'll be darned if I'm going to argue with other Catholics about the Church or anything else.
I won't support it, but I'm not wasting my time fighting about it with people who are supposed to be on the same side I am. Catholics, even bloggists, are just people after all. Some of them derive their income from the blog, and that creates it's own kind of pressure.
I agree that the SSPX is not the problem, but maybe Voris doesn't want anyone to think that the SSPX is a solution. I can't understand why he's so anti-SSPX. He seems to have a strange view of the papacy that I can't quite figure out. He seems to think that since JP2 excommunicated Archbishop Lefebvre and the four bishops, then that means that the SSPX is bad. He won't be convinced otherwise.
Regarding sedevacantists, I agree that *basic* sedevacantism is a not problem, but dogmatic sedevacantism most certainly is, because it definitely divides Catholics. Dogmatic sedevacantists believe that in order to be Catholic one MUST be a sedevacantist, and they tend to be obsessive and obnoxious about it, if anyone disagrees with them.
I didn't see the exchange (and don't really want to) between Skojec and Barnhardt, but I can believe it wasn't pretty.
M. Ray
Yes, I've noticed this for awhile now.
First it occurred between Voris and Matt and other trads over the SSPX thing and Francis.
Then with Fr. Gruner's passing, much of the Fatima Center has broken up.
Basically, with the loss of Fr. Gruner, a unifying figure has been lost.
And that's a precisely apt comparison to the lack of a Pope, or the lack of a Pope who acts like one.
When there was no King in Israel, every man did whatever he wanted.
This is why the Papacy is IMPORTANT!
And this is precisely why the Papacy must be EXERCISED and not some collegial nonsense. Of course a heretic Pope can never achieve this no matter how tyrannical he becomes. But a True Pope absolutely would maintain unity, and unity for fallen man must be harshly preserved - us all being the disobedient fallen bastards that we are.
Benedict's abdication resulted in all of this.
Benedict therefore, owns this, and he has an obligation to come out and address this.
We don't trust the mouths of Francis, Ganswein, Rosica or anyone else, particularly if they are into the photoshopping business over certain book 'endorsements'.
If they want to be so open and transparent, then all this can simply be addressed by putting Benedict out in the open to be questioned thoroughly and publicly by someone like, say, Antonio Socci, in a way that there is no escaping to ambiguity.
A simple thing, wholly rationale and easy to do.
But they don't do it.
Therefore, something is up.
I don't know if Barnhardt is right. But what she says should be treated seriously.
-Perhaps Benedict is still the Pope.
-Perhaps Francis actually was elected Pope validly.
-Perhaps neither of them are and we are in a state of sedevacantism.
That's where we are right now - all thanks to Benedict's 'retirement.' The silver lining is that perhaps, considering this current state of affairs, no true future pontiff will ever abdicate ever again. Especially never for reasons that they are too old to travel to World Youth Day or some such nonsense.
Okay, which Barnhardt post and which Skojek comment?? Links?
Thank you. I am very grateful for you. Never five in. Never give up.
Just one of the many reasons I do not support Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsOlXidHXRE
Matthew 10:34-39
Christ Brings Division
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set[a] a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find
Yes Anne can be acerbic, Boris has his own issues and Matt too mambi pambi. Knowing that helps in keeping their analysis in perspective. You however, is the voice of reason and you have paid a high price. It is greatly appreciated by this reader. I am confused however, because I consider you of great value and wealth. But what do I know?
https://www.barnhardt.biz/2018/12/13/beware-and-flee-from-any-man-who-tries-to-convince-you-that-jesus-christ-our-lord-and-savior-has-forsaken-his-promise-to-peter-and-his-successors-and-to-all-of-us/
https://www.barnhardt.biz/2018/12/14/act-and-god-will-act/
David , Here is my former pastor and I recommend him for one of the best priests to confer with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymdmaje8Hn0
I agree 100% with this article. I've a bit of something to say about it tomorrow evening.
But yeah. This is insane. People can't see the spell they're under. It's as though all of these folks---whom I love and keep up with---have absolutely no clue how to hang loose. How to be easy going.
A man amiable in society, shall be more friendly than a brother. Proverbs 18:24
Just chill the F out, people. Not everyone comes to the same conclusions the same way.
Sharing mincemeat with them would all be virtue signaling, no virtue.
You are joking about therapy, Vox, aren't you?
“Hear, hear” Vox, soldier on and remember you are in good company, the company of the saints!
Dorota Mosiewicz-Patalas said...
"Sharing mincemeat with them would all be virtue signaling, no virtue. You are joking about therapy, Vox, aren't you?"
Only partly Darota, I did have PHYSIOtherapy!
Anonymous said...
David , Here is my former pastor and I recommend him for one of the best priests to confer with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymdmaje8Hn0 10:55 pm, December 14, 2018
In 1987 I worked on Parliament Hill and lived in Lowertown. After coming from "conservative" Toronto, the liturgy at the Basilica was pretty shocking. An effeminate priest, women going to the tabernacle, EMHC's, etc. This was foreign to me. When I came back to the Church in 1982, I missed the 70's and the implementation of the Novus Ordo, I went to St. Michael's Cathedral, it was pretty close to what I had remembered in 1968. Well, one day, I stumbled into St. Brigid's in Ottawa, the parish in Lowertown. Father William Ashley was the pastor, a kind and faithful man. I experienced my first old Rite Mass in secreto on a Saturday, the side door just happened to be open and joined the choir, learned to sing chant and saw the Novus Ordo as it was intended. There is a whole tragic history of corruption in Ottawa that involved the booting out of that City this fledgling community of Oratorions. Plourde was a disgrace and the lead assault was coming from St. Joseph's whose pastor then, Fr. Douglas Crosbie, is now the Bishop of Hamilton.
God bless Father Ashley.
Good work Vox. Keep it up. All of this internecine warfare is from the devil. My standard of judgement is that anyone who believes the pre-Vatican II Catholic faith and rejects the errors of Vatican II are soul brothers and should be respected. This includes sedevacantists, SSPX, FFSP, Novus Ordo Catholics, former Catholics, etc
David,
I met Fr a in NJ. A dear friend who was one of five who held the deed to an independent chapel in Camden Diocese that was once John Vennari's old stomping grounds as an independent OB Brother, convinced Bishop McHugh ( of infamous memory)to allow Fr A to live there and start an Order , offering the EF of the Mass for the Faithful.
We became close BUT I told him this was all a ruse on the Bishop's part because he wants the property. I was correct. The Bishop moved onto Rockvlle Ctr NY and DeMerzio came in. Fr A had nothing in writing having made that mistake with McHugh. The deed holders were harassed into signing the property over to the Diocese. My friend was the holdout and she died in the process having told me the Chancellor used the most filthy language she ever heard on her. He was rewarded being made the Bishop of Metuchen Diocese and one of "McHugh's Boyz" took over the chapel. They do not necessarily hate Traditional laity if it makes them lots of money. Fr A was given 20 minutes to collect his belongings and leave.The beautiful antique Infant of Prague statue my friend left to Fr A was missing. He left without it. then it reappeared in the sanctuary when he was gone.
Shortly afterward a distraught gentlemen arrived at the parish wanting to speak to a priest . The current Diocesan refused to speak to him. He went into the sanctuary and smashed the large statue on the altar....The Diocesan replaced it with one of little comparison in beauty. That one fell off the pedestal and broke on the tile floor. Very strange how it all happened.
In the story below it WAS Fr A who asked me to dine with Fr Cipolla and return with my impression of the priest. I did and told him what I thought and Fr A showed him the door. We all missed Fr A terribly.
http://www.newengelpublishing.com/sex-abuse-case-against-father-anthony-j-cipolla/
PS One of McHugh's Boyz traveled to Canada after losing his position of importance in the Diocese when McHugh exited. (new Bishops bring their favorites with them) .....he confirmed everything to Fr A, including the fact that B McHugh ONLY wanted the property.
Power and wealth is ALL the 'disordered' want.They do NOT have God or any real Faith.
Fr Ashley has the genuine wealth and power within him because ,"The Kingdom of God is within you."
The problem with trads begins, not over the Faith we profess but, with the question of how much should we interact with the modernists who have gained the levers of power in what was once the Catholic Church. This is why it is impossible for conservative Novus Ordos at one end and home alone sedes at the other end to get along.
One big problem with what you say is that for sedes, part of the Faith we profess is submission to the Pope. That is why it is hard for sedes to get along with R&Rers who call a man Pope but then go on to totally reject all he teaches.
I think the problem(atleast on the internet side of things) is that the mainstream trad news,like church militant and OnePeterFive wants to believe that they are the bleeding edge of trad thought when they truly aren't. From my perspective they are always 2-3 years behind the Catholic bloggers they like to call out but eventually when it becomes more palatable to the mainstream will hold the exact same opinions that they railed against. I wouldn't surprise me if Skojec won't hold a reworked "Benevacantists" theory of his own in a couple years.
Until the Pope remains - so to speak - out of his Catholic mind, we remain leaderless. I would suggest to Catholics to get back to confession, daily Mass, Visits to the Blessed Sacrament. I would suggest to Catholics to seriously think about how liberalism has infected our minds (mine included, as I, like we all do, live in a liberal world 24/7), and to try to wash out the liberalism from our minds and souls. The various writers that Vox mentioned involved in these polemics, are without exception, liberals. Two men may believe the exact same thing: yet one be a protestant and the other Catholic. It is not just what one believes, but why and how one believes. Do not forget, friends, the Church is our Mother.
Vox:
You are hardcore.
You are a clear-thinking, right-minded follower of Christ our Lord. Never quit.
Tom A, says: “ .... call a man Pope, then go on to totally reject all that he teaches”.
I have noticed this and been bothered by this very much. The Pope is the visible symbol of unity within the living Church and also its connection of unity to all our brethren who came before, now triumphant in heaven. We do not insult, denigrate and ignore the Holy Father. It must be seriously considered why we now seem to do this so naturally as never before in history. At the same time we have a Pope “Emeritus” sharing in “a newly expanded and new Papal ministry”, we now freely insult and ignore his Papal partner. Our division as Catholics starts with the division in this new form in he Papacy - our visible head.
This cannot be.
What led us to this dismal pass must be acknowledged. We are divided because the Papacy is divided. We are divided because we are divided from Sacred Tradition. We are divided because the grace of God remains in the invisible “contemplative” Pope who continuously speaks to God in prayer and suffering; not the “active” Pope who likes to make a mess of things.
Unify the Papacy in one man as before. Submit, as is proper to, (correct him when necessary), the true Holy Father.
The faithless churchmen who have lain waste to the faith exist well beyond those identified. I truly believe the lion's share of this acrimony lay in frustration of the following: Being lied to; Discovery of scandal; Silence in the face of evil; Failure to teach Truth; Open and unchallenged heresy; Disregarding the authentic Magisterium. In other words, it all points back to the corruption of Vatican II. But it doesn't stop there. In the Mystery of Iniquity, it goes back to Fatima. It goes back to Pope Leo XIII. It goes back to the French Revolution. It goes back to the Enlightenment. It goes back to Protestant revolt. It goes back to the corruption in the Church at that time. Which all continues, ad infinitem, back to Satan and his desire to "sift Peter".
After this Chastisement and once we get our legs under us again, the renewal will be here. Carry on and God bless you!
We love and appreciate this blog. We thank you for your dedication and your faithfulness. May God bless you.
People are disappointing. The best of us mean well, but we get things wrong, and are petty, and silly, and vindictive. We should try not to, but this is part of our nature. It is not a credit to our belief in Christ, and it does not inspire faith in observers, if we become that circular firing squad because our Church is splintering and disintegration. How exactly would that serve our God.
Sorry, I need to proofread more often. :)
Long before what we see happening now with Catholics in the internet blogosphere, we experienced it firsthand as Catholics who decided to home school.
All over the US and in Canada a group run by the laity in Maciel's Regnum Christi ( Legion of Christ) were attempting to control the grass roots Catholic Home school support groups. They called themselves Torch and infiltrated and divided every group in a matter of months. Fr Stravinskas and a Sr Dudick led the charge to get control of parents who dared to use the Baltimore Catechism by recommending 'Guidelines" before these children were allowed to receive the Sacraments.I recall personally debating the same with Fr Hardon who told us to "Build bridges to Our Bishops"to which I responded, With all due respect Fr Hardon, that was useless when it came to their imposed sex ed."
Fr Hardon just dropped his head and looked at his hands knowing full well I was correct.
You can read that attempt to intentionally divide by Satan here.
http://catholic_homeschool.tripod.com/flashhistorytwo.html
Key figures were the Opus Dei convert Hahns, Torch/Nache people under the Legion of Christ's Regnum Christi led mostly by converts and reverts who were used as the pawns having no real understanding of the history of modernism in the US Diocese, and of course Fr Stravinskas who has his own strange history including being kicked out of a Nebraskan Diocese for the loss of a parish's 400 hundred thousand dollar account in one year.
http://www.eurekaencyclopedia.com/index.php/Category:Nebraska_Embezzlement
I agree!!! I'm a born protestant, who has done lots of research since converting into and out of the novus ordo here in Honolulu where there is nothing else - before I learned much of what I now know. This is ALL a situation in which there are various points of view brought to the fore by God's arrangement - and all those people, for what they do in standing up and having a point of view - will I think be well met by Christ at death - as doing the best they can Even the pew sitters in the Novus Ordo can't help it that they simply do not know any better.
In my opinion EVERYONE is doing the best they can... EXCEPT when CRITICIZING and calumniating OTHERS as individuals - but VC, consider! This is a GIFT TO YOU! It is wonderful to be attacked and personally calumniated! And also to step in and come to the defense of those on the receiving end when the discussion of what should be IDEAS becomes focused on individuals instead. So you are doing very good work.
"Correct him when necessay?" Why have a Pope of we have to correct him? Why not just have a Board of Approved Correctors? You cannot "correct" a Pope when he invokes his authority to teach. If he is Pope and he teaches, you submit. Otherwise we are just protestants.
I sometimes (rarely) disagree with you, Vox, but I've followed your blog for years, and that's because you're an excellent blogger.
I am surprised you face so much opposition - with regard to where I might disagree with you it's probably just your choice of language and not your intended meaning. For example, when you refer to "freedom of speech/the press," what that means to me is the idea that anyone has the right to promote any opinion they like, no matter how erroneous, and nobody has a right to adjudicate its acceptability for mass communication. Instead, it is up to some sort of nebulous "marketplace of ideas," for the truth to be established.
I imagine what you mean by those same words is probably more nuanced, where you and I would probably partly or wholly agree that everyone has a right to hear the truth and speak the truth publicly, unfettered by those who hate the truth, be it the State or anybody else. I'll just shy away from using the language of liberalism to describe that position.
Regardless, we don't have to agree on everything. How could I overlook your sincerity and the tremendous good that you do when you yourself speak the truth on your blog? Thank you and God bless you.
I know I'm a cracked record, but it is all so very simple!
An heretic cannot be Pope formaliter.
No Pope has ever been a public heretic.
The novus ordo church is not the Catholic Church.
novus ordo consecrations, ordinations and sacraments are invalid.
To "recognize and resist" a Pope does not exist in Catholic ecclesiology.
The Catholic Church is indefectible.
The Catholic Faith is immutable.
Grasp these Catholic doctrines firmly and deeply and all doubts and confusion will evaporate and your course of action will be clear as day.
If you regularly read a blogger who evinces no humor, make that habit a rarity.
If one can not laugh in the midst of this madness, one is mad.
As for the captious contention over whether or not Benedict XVI resigned, he did and he has publicly said he did resign freely several times.
One can not reason with one who does no take yes for an answer -especially when the ones who do not take yes for an answer are not Canon Lawyers. Canon Lawyer Ed Peters has posted - at least once - that Canon 818 can not be taken in isolation the way the obsessed do. He does not take seriously the claims that Ratzinger is still Pope.
As for those who demand that Bishop Emeritus Ratzinger submit to an interview by Socci, or somebody else, Bishop Emeritus Ratzinger would still not be believed by the benevacantists unless he gave them the one response they obsessively clamor for.
Honorius was condemned as a heretic by an infallible council.
of course one can recognise and resist a heterodox Pope. Saint Robert Bellarmine and St Vincent of Lerins both teach that.
What you have written is the Creed if The Novus Ordo Watch. right?
There are a few write-backers here who echo the false claim of the Novus Ordo Watch Sectarians that one can not recognise and resist a Pope but, of course, that claim is as false as their faith
https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/i010-Resist-1.htm
"Now there is nothing [Satan] fears as much as the unity of charity. For if we give away all we possess for God’s sake, the devil does not fear this, for he himself possesses nothing. If we fast, he has no fear of our action because he does not use food himself. If we keep vigil, again, he is not alarmed, for he himself never slumbers. However, when we are united in brotherly love, then he is intensely frightened. This is because we hold firmly here upon the earth the treasure that he thought light of keeping when he was in heaven." (Hugh of St Victor)
ABS, you fail to mention that the Pope at the time (Leo II I think) refused to condemn Honorius of heresy and altered the condemnation as drafted by the Council. Of course you can look this up yourself or continue to spew the anti-Papist views of the Church's enemies. Did you know that all the information presented in history about heretical Popes comes from protestant sources?
Do we have to make it so difficult for ourselves? As St. Augustine wrote:
In non-essentials,liberty.
In essentials. unity.
Keep the faith, David. God bless you.
Maybe, remember my brother who is very ill with cancer in your prayers once in awhile. It is taking a heavy toll on both of us.
Karl
Dear ABS, Pleeese give that old chestnut about Pope Honorius a rest. It has been thoroughly refuted ad nauseam. You and the tax lawyer must be the only two left thumping that hollow drum. How often do you quote St. Robert Bellarmine out of context! Of course one can resist an immoral, corrupt or unjust Pope who sins against Morals, just as one may resist any immoral man. I am sure you are aware of the difference between a "bad" Pope, who sins against Morals and an heretical Pope who sins against Faith. The former remains a Catholic and a true Pope. The latter is automatically excommunicated in terms of Divine Law, is no longer a Catholic and looses all authority. Only this has never happened in the history of the Church. No Pope, even the worst of the immoral ones has ever preached, or promulgated heresy. Both St. Robert and Vatican I, who both studied the matter in detail, have stated categorically that there has never been an heretical Pope in the history of the Church. Saint Robert thought this a sign from heaven that there never would be one. Would the Holy Spirit, Who protects the infallibility of the Church permit the Vicar of Christ to teach heresy? Of course not! If He did, where would infallibility be and where would His protection be? So, let's move on from "heretical Popes" - there is no such thing. Of course the conciliar clowns preach heresy for breakfast, but they are not Popes.
PS I meant no disrespect calling Salza a "tax lawyer" - I just could not remember his name - I'm getting geriatric.
Yes, Virginia, Honorius was condemned by a council but according to the "experts" he was not.
http://www.robertodemattei.it/en/2015/12/30/honorius-i-the-controversial-case-of-a-heretic-pope/
No layman can judge a Pope a formal heretic and then claim he is no longer Pope - unless one is a trad of the NOWS (Novus Ordo Watch Sectarians).
" Honorius was condemned by a council but according to the "experts" he was not."
Well actually, the "experts" are St. Robert Bellarmine, Doctor of the Catholic Church and the Church's prime authority on the Papacy and Vatican I - an infallible Council of the Catholic Church. So, I think we can safely remove the exclamation marks from "experts." :)
"No layman can judge a Pope a formal heretic and then claim he is no longer Pope ..."
Well actually, that is precisely why laymen are taught the Faith - so they can recognize heresy when they hear, or see it. They know that to deny even one article of Faith incurs automatic excommunication from the Church. They even know that to deny the existence of hell, or eternal punishment there for unrepentant sinners, is to deny three dogmas of the Catholic Church. Catholic doctrine also teaches them that an heretic cannot be Pope.
So, when we hear a "pope" denying dogmas of the Church, we may confidently, with an average God-given intelligence, conclude that he is not a Pope. Q.E.D. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work that out. :)
In defense of Barnhardt. She never attacked Skojec, et al by name until they go after her. She has gotten hell from Trad media types because she believes, correctly imho, that Benedict is still pope. Trads who disapprove of Francis are curiously defensive of him and insist, despite his many heresies and rape of the bride of Christ, that he is legit. Canonically, the case is clear that B16 didn't resign properly and whether we like it or not, whether he likes it or not, B16 is pope. This is important because the Holy Spirit protects the office and ministry of the pontiff, and if we insist on Francis and his errors, we follow him to damnation.
The way to purify the Church is from within. Not by becoming a sede, or aligning with false assumptions, or ignoring truth. We must go where the truth leads. As it stands, right now, I believe it with all my being, Benedict is pope, because he didn't resign properly, and Francis is an antipope, maybe even the antichrist.
Cling to Church dogma, go to mass, pray the rosary, plead to God. That's all we can do.
Peter Lamb, JMY, Vox, comments like these, blogs like this, are what keep my bearings straight in stormy seas.
Good Catholic Truth always sounds about the same, no matter the topic, variously applied. And those who present it always tend to be peaceful about it.
Isn’t NOW a Rabbi?
Dear Mr. Lamb.
In denying that an infallible council did what it did with Honorius, you are implicitly calling into question the works of that infallible council.
That is, you are now objectively aligned with Martin Luther.
The NOWS (Novus Ordo Watch Sectarians) have led many (you too?) into such massive errors that they go unnoticed by the fans of NOWS.
Read about Honorius at the Catholic Encyclopedia:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07452b.htm
Please, Mr. Lamb, return to the fold while there is still time...repent of your errors
ABS will try one more time with Mr. Lamb.
Dear Mr. Lamb. You accept that Pope Pius XII was a legitimate Pope but that will have to change because he taught in Mystici Corporis that which you reject-
41. They, therefore, walk in the path of dangerous error who believe that they can accept Christ as the Head of the Church, while not adhering loyally to His Vicar on earth. They have taken away the visible head, broken the visible bonds of unity and left the Mystical Body of the Redeemer so obscured and so maimed, that those who are seeking the haven of eternal salvation can neither see it nor find it.
Embrace humility Mr. Lamb and repent of your errors and come home.
Either that or confess that Pope Pius XII was also a pretend Pope and search for a Pope whom you find legitimate.
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