Update: Sadly, Mr. Skojec has proved my point and has now sniped at me for this action. Clearly, if the combox is any judge, many share my views, for whatever they are worth. I have no time to debate with him, nor energy, Christmas is coming. He tagged me on a post and now I am inundated. I have removed the tag and blocked him. If anyone has an issue, feel free to write me at voxcantoris (at) rogers (dot com). God bless him but I'm done...
And the fact remains, Skojec has allowed abuse of Miss Barnhardt in commentary far beyond what is reasonable.
ENOUGH!
The post below, "The Devil is dividing and people are blind to it," has had thousands of views. It was motivated by a derogatory Facebook post by Steve Skojec responding to something which inflamed him written by Ann Barnhardt. Rather than privately reach out to Ann, Skojec took after her on Facebook and the gang up has been disgraceful. It continues.
A few people, this writer included, have tried to point out that it has gone too far and overboard. Skojec refuses to see his continuing error and mocks when he is corrected.
In March 2015, Thomas Rosica attempted to undertake a vexatious and frivolous lawsuit. Steve Skojec, a man I did not know, never communicated with, wrote a snarky comment on his Facebook akin to "well, I've heard all about him" or something like that, it has been a long time to remember it exactly. I wrote to him privately to correct him. I believe that I know who was behind that and it is right up her alley.
Given the continuing situation, One Peter Five is now removed from the blog roll and there will be no future links to it. I can no longer recommend it, notwithstanding whatever good they have written. I have already removed Hilary Jane Margaret White's "What's Up With the Synod."
I predict its demise within months. Not because of me, not at all, but because of its founder and owner.
A corporal work of mercy.
Click on photo for this corporal work of mercy!
64 comments:
Sad, but understandable. Thank you for taking a stand. There is much to appreciate with both individuals, and perhaps they will take some time to reflect. We should all do that. Again, thank you for taking this small step that gives us all pause. God bless you.
Good morning, just commenting on the One Peter Five situation.This weekend on Twitter , I was perplexed. I appreciate dearly both Frank Walker and Steve. They got in a pissing match on Twitter. My first thought was your header today.....The Devil is dividing and people are blind to it..... for sure Pride goeth before the fall... I'll hope for the best ...God Bless.
Well done Vox. Very well done. God bless.
This is very sad. I have supported 1P5 for several years, but am seriously considering moving my money elsewhere. There is a lot of good on that site, but the editorial staff seems to be
becoming very uncharitable.
Ego is running wild through the Catholic blogosphere, and Twitter seems to be the vector. As someone said on here recently- get off social media unless you must have it.
Here's the thing- no one of us is the absolute benchmark for All Things Catholic. To hold others to your own prudential opinions and actions sins against benevolence- the assumption, unless you have evidence otherwise, that people are doing the best they can with the knowledge and abilities they have. We can help each other out through the spiritual works of mercy, but admonishing the sinner and instructing the ignorant are not
occasions to prove how clever and snarky one can be.
Agreed.
I saw the dust-up between Skojec and Walker, and frankly, Skojec was the jerk in that exchange. Frank was being respectful. But then, Skojec has always been a jerk. He has always considered himself to be far more intelligent than he actually is, and if anyone dares to point out the factual errors of his assertions, he always resorts to the delusional snark of "you're obviously not smart enough to understand my brilliant point" He really thinks that his BA in theology makes him some sort of intellectual powerhouse. But really, his entire internet presence is all just a stage for his fragile ego. And in these tumultuous times of spiritual deception, the Devil is merely adding complicated row after intricate row of intellectual obfuscation in order to hide the simple forest with all the busy trees of pointless fodder. Our Lord said of the false teachers "By their fruits you WILL know them". And that simple objective reality doesn't require some self-appointed faux-intellectual "expert" to explain the self-evident Truth to the simple-headed rubes in the pews. The Holy Spirit has already given that Grace to His Faithful. All of the rest is just the sophist stagecraft of personal egos...
JMJ
Steve and Hilary would have much less stressful lives -- and thus less temptation to conflict/uncharitableness -- if they accepted the fact that Bergie is not Pope. Otherwise, they subject themselves to spine-snapping mental gymnastics in order to reconcile Christ's promises with a "Pope" who contradicts them.
I was blocked from 1P5. I have given him money over the years. I strongly supported him before he ever even started 1P5.
I have serious questions and it bothered me very much that he didn't even have the courtesy to respond to my earnest questions prior to banning me.
My Catholic Faith means more to me than anything in life.
The Papacy means more to me than anything in the Catholic Church, (under Christ).
I became Catholic because of the Truth of Sacred Tradition; certainty of Doctrine in the Deposit of Faith; Apostolic Line leading to Christ - *above all* the Pope! All those things led me, at great sacrifice, into the Church.
When I have doubt, or there is doctrinal conflict, I go to Tradition and constant Church Teaching. So:
A retired Pope. Emeritus. Living firmly within the enclosure of St. Peter, retaining the Munus of prayer and suffering, appearing as Pope, addressed as Pope in a Papacy "expanded and forever changed" - "a gift".
This unheard of arrangement in any prior day for 2,000 years makes no sense to me. It has nomstanding because it has never been done and contradictsmthe clear Words Of Christ: ("Thou Art Peter". Not "These are Peters"). I have never received an explanation that makes sense. The only explanation (always the same): "Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI is clearly confused and wrong. He *is* retired. His subsequent actions, the product of an old, confused mind. Subsequent words and actions do not change the word he spoke at abdication. And ... *'Significant Error' does not apply because whatever he does after the resignation statement is irrelevant. Just because he is dressing up like a crazy man who thinks he is Pope, means only that he is a confused old man. *NOT* significant error".
I find that explanation highly unsatisfactory. It does not meet the reality test and the Sacred Tradition test.
I am more than willing to be convinced otherwise, but any reasonable explanation will have to connect what I *see* -a new system of Papal Retirement with multiple Popes helping each other in the expanded Petrine Ministry - with what I know to be true: Sacred Tradition.
I see one Pope. Then the next Pope. Every 750 years, a Pope abandons Christ and walks away. Pope Benedict XVI didn't walk away. I find it too bad Skojec wouldn't engage on such a metaphysically important topic with a fellow Catholic.
Solid Catechesis has been lacking for half a century at least.Steve S came into the Church via the RC lay branch of the legion of Christ.While much of his writings are decent ,some I find not so very catholic in the traditional sense of he older catechisms we were raised with.
If Christ is the same today as He was yesterday someone please tell me why the Vatican and modernist Popes, who are supposed to represent Christ on earth, keep changing things?
The Orthodox on the other hand remain grounded in the first seven Councils because the entire Church founded by Jesus and His Apostles were represented at those Councils.
Furthermore the more recent changes Pope Francis proposes for the Lord's Prayer were already proposed and implemented several years ago in Belgium and the Netherlands.
"Just as with Communion in the hand and female altar servers......it was the Dutch and Belgium modernists ! Rome just goes along and makes it official.
Look back"
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/dutch-catholic-church-replaces-temptation-with-trial-in-our-father-prayer
How is it the Church today basically backs Carechumens like Hahn and so many others as teaching instruments of the Church to teach cradle Catholics how to be Catholic?
At present ,I am viewing Dr Marshall's interview with fairly new priest Fr Goring. I love his zeal and common sense approach to the homosexual clerical scandal BUT he often quotes Ralph Martin as though he was some kind of authority. Fr Goring is charismatic and does charismatic protestant altar calls at his services.
Ralph Martin ws instrumental in establishing charismatic cult communities i.e The People of Hope( or God or something) in Warren NJ. I knew a couple who were the first arranged marriage in that cult. They exited after having three children and growing up wiser for the experience. Another cult named the People of Mary or some such title, was shut down by a Bishop in or around Maryland.Ralph was responsible for the Dominow pizza man converting or reverting to Catholicism and starting ave Maria land in Florida. Catholics who bought into that have been trying to sell their homes in droves and get out. Fr Orsi of the Michigan broadcast "Boy's Cherries"
is also prominent there having been one of Bishop Mchugh's Boyz in Camden Diocese later writing articles for 'Opus Bono Sacerdoti' and homosexual publications concomitantly.
I am sorry but having spoken to and experienced personally,I see many of these current internet Catholic quoted twit and blog authorities as having highly suspect fact based histories.
I think that good Old Ann Barnhart can take the heat. She has a thick skin and she did have it coming. Ann's comments on Pope Francis being an anti-pope are frankly ridiculous, especially her foolish attempts to investigate and interpret the Latin original of Pope Benedict's resignation speech....truly a crash and burn result. If anyone does need a correction, it would be Ann, as well as Bishop Gracida , Canon 212 and various other sites that imprudently pontificate on matters that are both beyond their competency and mysterious in nature. Realize that they are inches away from being full blown sedevacantists.
I've noticed the same thing over the last couple of weeks and I have stopped bothering with Steve and Hilary also. The refusal to even name "She Who Must Not Be Named" while dismissing the Canon 188 thesis out of hand speaks volumes about their lack of a coherent counterargument. Why is everyone so afraid of Ann Barnhardt? I have seen many snarky and ad hominem dismissals of her thesis but not one of the "major" Catholic blogs has bothered to take the time to refute it, despite the fact that she has laid it out quite logically. The assumption seems to be that if we pretend it's not worthy of our time maybe it will just go away. Wouldn't want to associate with a nut job lest our audience (and more importantly) our donations go away. Anyway, thanks for taking a stand.
I have halted support both financially and by word of mouth for one peter five. This last incident is a bit too much. I have halted support for Hillary, also.
"...something which inflamed (Steve Skojec) written by Ann Barnhardt." Umm, that's putting it rather antiseptically, isn't it? She publicly accused him of apostasy. He responded to defend his reputation. He has a right to defend himself and his reputation, even if you think he doesn't have a particularly good reputation. I notice she's not been called on to retract her accusation and her blog is still featured in the blog role. There's plenty of blame to go around for this particular episode of "The Circular Firing Squad." It is unjust to single him out for all of it.
While I am not convinced that Bergoglio is not the real Pope, I take issue with Anonymous's assertion that Ann Barnhardt is being "ridiculous", and I think Anonymous is making the same mistake here that Skojek has made by dismissing people who raise this issue as "borderline insane". Name-calling, in addition to being uncharitable and childish, makes the name-caller look defensive. Why not address the issue dispassionately? This Pope is so BIZARRE in every way that it hardly seems "insane" to float almost every possibility. Also, while Benedict's resignation was not unprecedented, it was very surprising at the time and is looking weirder with every month that passes when he is still, well, alive! Many of us scratch our heads and mutter, "Remind me WHY Pope Benedict resigned..." Given that Pope John Paul II was in far worse physical shape in the years leading up to his death, the Benedict-was-getting-old argument doesn't really sound convincing.
Anyway, Steve Skojek's heart is in the right place, but he's getting bitter. He needs too give himself a break from policing people on his side. He wrote that people who assert that they "know" that Bergoglio is not the Pope are in schism and are in a state of serious sin. Even if he be technically correct about the first part, I have serious doubts about the second part. Given what this Pope is saying to the world on a nearly weekly basis, it's hard to imagine God is going to be be too ticked off at those who love the Catholic faith -- the TRUE Catholic faith -- who are over zealous in calling out Bergoglio as a fraud.
Anonymous said..."It is unjust to single him out for all of it."
No, I made it clear in the previous post that her comment was problematic, in so far as it got him upset. However, his post is unclear and she picked up on that.
SS's problem has sniped at me publicly and he did not even know me.
He is gone from my feed and I note by the comments, that I am not alone in those who have noticed.
The post on his FB has gone to far and he is feeding the detraction against her.
Enough of all of this!
Good for you Vox. Skojek has sadly started to believe his popularity was his own doing, as opposed to God's work, and his ego has grown proportionately.
Your combox would also appear to be infected by the same anonymous troll that befouls the Eponymous Flower's box.....he throws accusations and calumnies with no back-up. Case-in-point here; Barnhardt was exactly right in what she said about Skojek. There is no other way to read his sad post...he basically called Jesus Christ, Second Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity, a liar. He needed to be called on the carpet for that and he now needs to 1) publicly apologize, and 2) publicly correct it. And the accompanying selfie was indeed 'creepy'. I had once financially supported him, but this last episode was a logical conclusion for a long time coming. sad.
What is it do you think is mysterious? Bergolio utters blasphemies and heresies with every flap of his gums and every document he issues. There is no mystery there. What I find mysterious is how someone can hold a position that a non catholic is head of the Catholic Church. That prospect is not a mystery. It is an impossibility.
I defended Barnhardt in the combox, and was banned.
I'm so glad I never gave 1P5 money.
All this turmoil in the church has done me some good. It has lead me to the SSPX. Archbishop Lefebre is proven right. He was truly a saint.
https://gloria.tv/video/8Q3eqRM4H1sC4puwj84CEgzxF
Friends, put not your trust in princes or princesses (as the case may be). Only trust in Our Lord Jesus Christ. Pray and treat your fellow Catholic with respect, until God puts the Pope back on his feet, in God's own good time. When? When we deserve it. That means, we need more prayer, more sacrifice...
This is all very sad. While we shouldn't be tolerant of heresy, schism, and apostasy, we also shouldn't go around accusing those we disagree with of being guilty of those crimes for merely disagreeing with our opinions. And that's what we have here: mere opinions. Miss Barnhardt, whose opinion I respect, has a bad habit of dogmatizing her opinions. Skojec, et. al., seem to have a weakness for reactionary behaviour when dealing with persons like Miss Barnhardt. What he has against poor Mr. Vox, I have no idea.
This drama is an example, par excellence, why I won't touch Twit, and Fake with a ten foot pole. They are from the devil, I'm convinced (but I won't call you heretic if you disagree with my assessment!).
I uploaded a picture of BOTH "POPES" (Francis & Benedict) with the legend "Against the reality (of two popes) there is no argument"... to make it clear that the whole disputation is pointless
and they banned me to...
but I can not help but to recognize that in rome, there are two of them, wear in white, and both ara called "Pope" (emeritus, but, pope too)
Frankly, I appreciated your Devil is Dividing and echoed those sentiments exactly on my own teeny tiny blog.
In a way of attempted humorous deflection, I ran a poll as well. Who'd win in a cage match to the death? Skojec or Barnhardt? https://vincitquise.blogspot.com/2018/12/just-questionfor-funof-course.html
I find the sniping, snarking, lame-o reactions, especially to charity expressed as you had in that post, quite off-putting. I think the continued posturing and passive or aggressive aggression quite lame-o.
Turn the guns on the real enemies.
Keep up the good work!
I think it's time for a family meeting. Bring 'em all together under one roof, no computers, and have a frank conversation.
Steven
I agree with you. We have to pray for all individuals within the church especially those who are trying to preach the true to all. The Devil will encircle such individuals, looking for a way to take them down. Most often than not it is spiritual pride, and if one does not have a strong spiritual life they will fall prey Satan and his minions. Frequent reception of Our Lord,confession,daily rosary and at least 20min of mental prayer coupled with daily adoration will help such individuals and ourselves as well stay the straight and narrow course.
C'mon, Steve, Ann, it's Advent! Make it a holy one! Stop this!
Forgot two important ones, self denial and fasting.
I just looked at Ann's website (which I look at many times a day - she's become my favorite writer and I don't apologize). I'm not going to get into a battle of the Trads but Ann makes a very good point and that is to: GET OFF ALL SOCIAL MEDIA! I could not agree more and at the top of everyone's list should be Facebook. That site does nothing except breed anger, narcissism and stupidity. Does anyone think Zuckerberg and company are our friends? Same for Twitter: it's a stupid site for unimportant trolls to vent and equally unimportant trolls to reply. Who needs that? I myself am now going to get off Instagram. I liked it at first because it seemed like a nice, sane place to post and look at artwork and photos but ads are starting to pop up and despite the kind of things I like and view, I'm seeing lots of ads for liberal special interest groups. Social media is of the devil and we need to "de-friend" it.
I'm not sorry I donated to Hilary White when she was sick but I never will again. As for Steve he seems very depressed all this year. That excuses him a little. Pope Francis is horrible but Steve's decision to write what he wrote about Our Lord's promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail is all on him.
I was totally scandalized by Hilary's horrible rant against Ann in Steve's FB post. (It was Ann's site I first landed on which led me to conversion.....so I always admit to being biased towards her). I was so upset that I immediately emailed Ann so that she might confirm or deny. She returned email rather quickly. Steve obviously saw how how bad Hilary's post made HILARY look bad and deleted it. And also unfriended me (assuming because of the dust up between Hilary and me over her insipid posts). I'd only been FB friends with Steve for a few months, but I almost immediately noticed FB Steve is extremely immature compared to 1P5 Steve.
Me too.
My old Girl Scout song is coming to my mind, "Make new friends but keep the old, one is silver and the other gold."
We can hardly afford to divide, we've got very few friends. This all must amuse Satan to no end.
Skojec is a bully. One who gives himself a pass for boorish behavior while lecturing others. That said, red-pilling should be done all a once. Biting the pill bit by bit makes for a sour disposition and the belief that one has already arrived. God bless.
Agree
A lot of people here have made excellent points so far on a variety of positions. I think that in of itself points to the reasonable nature of this blog's discourse.
@ Anonymous at 12:36 pm, December 18, 2018
> If Christ is the same today as He was yesterday someone please tell me why the
> Vatican and modernist Popes, who are supposed to represent Christ on earth,
> keep changing things?
Popes were are fallible going all the way back to St Peter, whom our Lord called Satan, immediately after declaring him to be Pope. To answer your question a bout modernism, unfortunately, after a long run of good Popes, the Church got a little cocky and trusted that Pope could do no wrong and let them change things that have no authority to change because Popes are supposed to be guardians of Tradition not makers of Tradition. The Church will eventually work that out (as it did the Protestant and Nicene heresies), but it will take a few more Papacies to do so.
As for the Orthodox remaining grounded, you must not have investigated them too deeply. The Orthodox have fundamental differences in doctrines between each Patriachate, especially WRT the sacraments, and even within a Patriachate it's possible to see a secular drift on many doctrines. I know this because I was brought back into the faith because of the Orthodox and I would likely have converted if they were not fundamentally flawed. The reasons they look better from the outside is because they preserved the Liturgy and they were shielded more persecution by the Russians and Muslims. Persecution purifies the faith, but without Peter, there will be drift and schism as is the current case of the Great Othodox Schism of 2018.
Very sad. I’m praying for all involved. Sound spiritual direction would solve a lot of this. Humility is a foundational virtue.
Well....I'm not Catholic because of a Pope, nor will I leave the Church because of a Pope.
Barnhardt Thesis:
1. Resignation invalid because of attempt to split Petrine ministry into two: contemplative/active.
Evidence: Actions of keeping name, wearing white, wording of resignation - Latin suggests using conditional as opposed to indicative ('could' be vacant vs. 'will' be vacant). Some other circumstantial evidence (which, by the way is evidence): Francis's constant heretical statements indicating he does not enjoy protection from fallibility.
2. If resignation was invalid, then election was void and Francis is not Pope.
Counter argument: all has to hinge on validity of the resignation - if valid, then so was election; if not, then election null and void. The best argument I have seen to support the validity was the "conditional" language was actually not conditional - it can be used for indicative as well ('will' be vacant). That, and Benedict appears to treat PF as Pope, and until Benedict acts otherwise. . . .
I am not a Latin scholar, so it is well beyond my ability to determine. But it does not seem a ludicrous position to say there are questions surrounding the resignation. The other argument - that it is up to the competent authorities to decide - is not really a counter to the invalidity argument. It is more of a "not my yob" argument - but it does not change the reality of the validity/invalidity, any more than murdering someone makes you not a murderer until a court passes judgment. At best, it is an argument that Francis is the presumed Pope.
Blogs come and blogs go.....
Keep up the good work, Vox........
People have disagreements. Just grow up.
Since 2015 I have been shocked at the language and sin of detraction by Anne B, Vox Cantoris, and the puffed up egos of Steve S and Hilary. Frank Walker's chronic negative comments in the canon 212 headlines has become tedious at best. What I never knew until I got a computer is just how much unchristian conversation there is in DROVES. These sites do nothing to draw those searching for truth into the Catholic church. In fact, it seems to me that it drives many away. In these days of cold hard anger and egoism people are thirsting for Goodness, beauty and truth. Everyone here would find more abundant fruit in the silence of an Adoration chapel nearby which always brings peace. These sites have lost their mission. Rome is probably watching with glee...but the devil is a much more intelligent being than anyone blogging and he is using them all for his ugly purposes including this site and many commenters who think they have all the answers. Time for rejoicing and allowing God to lead.
Uhm Anonymous 8:10 pm, December 18, 2018, you do realize that you're blogging to tell everyone how wrong they are because they insist on blogging to tell everyone how wrong they are - yes?
Physician, heal thyself.
I am shocked at the language and sin of detraction by Anonymous 8:10 p.m. Negative comments like this do nothing to draw those searching for the truth into the Catholic church. This commenter has lost all sense of mission and is being used by the devil for ugly purposes. Anonymous needs to stop thinking he or she is more intelligent than everybody else, and let God lead (through this blog and others like it) for a change!
I LOVE you ,Vox. I always appreciated you let me say what I really think without threatening to ban me from your site, I LOVE you rhinestone and your loyalty to Christ and hIs church. I am with you in this and I pray for you.
From Wikipedia: "Follow the money" is a catchphrase popularized by the 1976 drama-documentary motion picture All the President's Men, which suggests political corruption can be brought to light by examining money transfers between parties.
I believe that Skojec and White need to be transparent with regard to their major donors and their views of this pontificate. Too many bloggers have assumptions regarding Catholic beliefs concerning a heretic in the chair of Peter, which are incompatible with Tradition. As I said on Deus Ex Machina, I believe these people may be members of Opus Dei, Regnum Christi or the Legionnaires of Christ. That could account for their rigid views even in the face of evidence to the contrary. mary_podlesak
Mr Dunn , well said!
Facebook is nothing but a form of self advertisement and in the majority of postings and photos it appeals to self Pride. Anyone for a selfie stick for Christmas?
We all know why Lucifer fell from Heaven and Facebook is his best recruitment tool.
Furthermore , I do not care to learn anymore about the Faith I was born into and studied most of my life other than from the Early Church Fathers and the Lives of the Saints and certainly not from converts or reverts who only discovered the Catholicism during the Pontificate of JP2.
I have noticed a very grave steady deterioration of the tone of the Catholic Blogs over the past 3 years. From a daily reader, I have become a, perhaps, once a month sampler. The lack of charity, the hubris, and the internecine warfare I've noted is truly scandalous. I won't name names, but every self-righteous blogger thinks they have the answer and are totally in the right. How does Our Lord view this? I think, less blogging and more prayer, more penance, and more humility would go a long way to ending this scandal. The fruits of the Council appear to be very bad: division, civil war within the Church, and a spectacle to the world.
I think we need the reminder of Augustine in thee times: In essentials, unity, in non=essentials, liberty, and in all things charity.
The Eastern Orthodox Church held to the teachings of the first 7 ecumenical councils... except for that on about "second marriages", i.e. adultery.
With the greatest respect to Steve Skojec - for his evident sense of duty, intellectual honesty, and care for souls - I have to say that on several key questions he is completely and totally wrong.
First of all, let me say that I do agree with him on the matter of relevance: at the end of the day, amid all the dust, fog and confusion, Bergoglio has the power of the Papal throne, even if he doesn't in fact have the authority (I believe he has).
I disagree on one point of argument, and profoundly on the global picture, which Steve doesn't say a word about in his podcast, but which answers all our questions.
The point of argument: that Bergoglio may not be aware of the traditional treatment of the teaching on capital punishment ("Jesuit malformation " etc.) is fatuous. Bergoglio referenced the old teaching, condemned and insulted it and the teachers of it, clearly showing therefore that he must be aware of it. This obviously does make him a formal heretic. As for warnings, who says what form that warning has to take? There are priests who have written online about the radical rejection of Tradition that is Bergoglio's teaching, and we know that his cohorts read online criticism assiduously. Why is that not a public warning?
Where that takes us is a different matter.
Far more importantly, the global picture. Look, it's not difficult actually. In the unprecedented confusion thrown up by this monster, we must fall back on the Scripture that Bergoglio rejects, deforms, misquotes - and beyond which, according to an approving Rosica, Bergoglio now is.
But we are not.
1. Scripture COMMANDS us not to follow or obey false teachers. To any sane man or woman, Bergoglio is the doyen of false teachers (in a Church that is now full of them). How can it be schism to refuse to follow such a man, who leads souls to hell (and evidently enjoys doing so)? No! It is not schism but obedience to the Word of God! It is Bergoglio and those who support him who have left the Church, not us. I appreciate the reasons for Steve's warnings, but rejection of false teachers does not ipso facto involve a rejection of the Church. It does, and must, involve a rejection of Anti-Church.
2. It is my firm belief that as we move further and further into the end game described by St. John in his great vision of the Apocalypse, the whole of Creation melts, decays, is blown away in the maelstrom. There must be a visible Church, and there is and always will be, consisting of those priests and laity who hold to the integral Catholic Faith. That means the Traditional Faith, unencumbered by the ecumenism, indifferentism, syncretism and universal salvationism of the Modernists. What does that make Bergoglio? It makes him the False Prophet (but not I think the Anti-Christ).
There is a vast amount of evidence of this wider spiritual reality, which Steve does not even begin to touch on. His concerns are much more prosaic and I understand that.
Perhaps his role should be, in the light of his many podcast comments about not knowing the answers, not to give too many opinions at all - certainly not that he or she is a schismatic - but just continue to bring us the many excellent articles 1P5 has delivered over the past few years.
The "Benevacantist" article was contemptuous, snide, and slanted, starting with the title. It should spell the end pf 1P5.
Skojec is always wrong seems to be a good rule of thumb.
All of these Internet persoanilities are pretty contemptible. Everybody has a five year plan to save the Church and they may not even mamange to save their own souls.
Did not see the dust up between Steve and Ann, I locked myself out of facebook and don't have the time at the moment to rectify it. I agree with others that social media is being used as a tool of the Devil, so....maybe I'll just keep myself 'locked out.'
And yes, Fr.VF, I read the article, and it was snarky indeed, however keep in mind it was not written by SS but non the less approved and posted on his site by him, so he has to take responsibility for it.
As for Francis being the true 'Pope'? There are very suspicious evidences that he is not, however, I am not a Theologian or a Canon Lawyer or anything even CLOSE so I wouldn't dare to INSIST that he's not. I'm just a simple lowly pew sitter that is watching in horror as our Church burns. That question is entirely up in the air for me personally. That doesn't mean we shouldn't question and seriously study his validity, surely those in the know inside the Church have a responsibility to do just that, but it doesn't look as if they have that intention. I do think that's the frustration reflected by people like Ann Barnhardt, and so she has decided to take matters into her own hands. I understand where she's coming from. Mean while I don't listen to most of what he says as it's incoherent and not much of what he says is Catholic teaching. We are all obligated NOT TO listen to error let alone CONSTANT teaching of error even from a sitting 'Pope'. Our job is to pray and sacrifice and declare the truth of Church teaching whenever possible. Not much more can we do but wait of the Good Lord Himself to step in.
This entire business is scandalous and contemptible, from the public bickering on social media to the overwrought responses, including this blog post. This comment thread is no exception: Vox is tacitly encouraging his readers to engage in detraction and calumny, and far too many are eager to take the bait.
Grow up, all of you.
TLM, you have great humility and prudence: “As for Francis being the true 'Pope'? There are very suspicious evidences that he is not, however, I am not a Theologian or a Canon Lawyer or anything even CLOSE so I wouldn't dare to INSIST that he's not. “
I think it important that we laity within Christ’s earthly bride the church give ourselves appropriate credit that we can and will make accurate assessments based on our own common sense, reason, and trust in God (look where deference to the ‘Theologians’ has gotten us).
Canon 188 is very simple. In its entirety, “A resignation made out of grave fear that is inflicted unjustly or out of malice, substantial error, or simony is invalid by the law itself.” http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_PN.HTM
In my humble opinion Pope Benedict’s attempt to bifurcate the papacy in his novel creation of an ‘emeritus’ or ‘junior’ or ‘vice-‘ Pope, and continue to actively serve (though not 50:50) as a Bishop in White is clearly a resignation made out of substantial error. It is absolutely true that a Pope can resign validly. This has happened before. Clear to many of us is that Benedict’s attempted resignation is invalid and so the condition must revert to the moment before the mistake; that is, Benedict gloriously reigning. Nothing prevents Benedict from resigning validly at that point, however Bergoglio’s conclave and everything following it is invalid and should be declared as such.
When you take into account our Lord’s promise of eternal protection to the true occupant to the petrine office, then the contradictions and everything that has happened in the past five years make total sense. Bergoglio is not protected.
You could ask “So where is God’s protection of Benedict?” In this I see, yet again, our Lord’s elegant gift to us in opening a door to allow us to help Him by acting with strength and virility to throw off a clearly nefarious anti-pope and helping Him fulfill his own promise. Through the requirement that we and God act together, will be demonstrated our faith, charity, and free-will, along with the eternal grace of God.
For an objective, detailed, and evidenced description of the substantial error of Bergoglio, I invite EVERYONE to watch or listen to Ann Barnhardt’s presentation (2 video links and 1 audio link below):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkadmPUJgOw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXe76S2lkK8
Audio MP3: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/ispawz/BergoglianAntipapacy.mp3
God bless us ALL!
JC
Oops... Correction. Intro to Barnhardt links should read “substantial error of BENEDICT” (not Bergoglio).
And for those looking for some precedent of God opening the door for us to somehow work with Him to demonstrate both our faith and His glory... it happens every time the sacrifice of the holy mass is offered… EVERY TIME!
God bless all of us.
JC
While I believe that it was wrong for 1P5 to accuse the benevacantists of being schismatics, I do think that any form of sedevacantism can lead to serious problems.
There quite a few different flavors of sedevacantism. It can also be called, "sedewahteverism" because of the many varieties. Sedevacantists tend to make up their own theology to justify their own versions. It's very American in that way (a form of individualism). Father Gregory Hesse once spoke on this, saying that he was waiting for sedevacantists to say that St. Peter was the last Pope.
While it's understandable that Catholics will be confused in these trying times, sedevacantism can lead to division more than anything else. It tends to cause a sort of obsession with the papacy, to the neglect of other important Catholic teachings.
M. Ray
Anonymous (JC - 11:56)
A hearty concur from me.
I have thought recently of the prayers so necessary from us for our Supreme Pontiff. Been conflicted about this for some time. How can I pray in support ... of all that!? His intention is objective, pervasive heresy, change, revolution.
But. When you *accept the premise* that the visible facts surrounding the prior resignation and its aftermath are not supported by the Universal Magisterium in Sacred Tradition ... *then* you are left with a validly elected Pope that is *truly alone*, save his close relationship with Almighty God in the Papal Munus of prayer and suffering. No one sees him there, but he is the one united to God in prayer and suffering!
Alone. Alone in the highest Office in the earthly and spiritual kingdoms. Surrounded by some explicitly ravenous wolves. Wow.
Pope Benedict XVI needs our prayers. He needs all Catholics to recognize his tenuous physical and spiritual position and support him in prayer; offer him up to the protection of St. Michael the Archangel (whose statue he *insisted* be placed outside his Vatican residence).
And that is why this question *cannot* be ignored, waiting for some future Council to pronounce 200 year's from now. The Pope, the validly elected Pope, needs our prayers this very moment. This is a hinge point in time.
Canon 188 is very simple. In its entirety, “A resignation made out of grave fear that is inflicted unjustly or out of malice, substantial error, or simony is invalid by the law itself.”
"No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law" is also very simple. Yet there are tens of thousands of cases involving disputes over it.
Rob Z said...
"The Eastern Orthodox Church held to the teachings of the first 7 ecumenical councils... except for that on about "second marriages", i.e. adultery."
The RC Annulment process does a better job for a price?
Nicely said TLM!
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