The analysis of the dreadful action by Bergoglio to abrogate Summorum Pontificum continues. Joseph Shaw of the Latin Mass Society of England and Wales has provided Edward Pentin with the results of assessments by a group of Canonists.
LMS Chairman: Canonical guidance on Traditionis Custodes from the Latin Mass Society
The full text is here. Trad_Cust_canonical_notes.pdf (lms.org.uk)
7 comments:
ALL CATHOLICS SHOULD INTERPRET VATICAN COUNCIL II WITH ONLY THE RATIONAL PREMISE(BLUE COLUMN) AND NOT THE IRRATIONAL PREMISE (RED COLUMN) SO THERE IS NO RUPTURE WITH TRADITION : THIS IS IRRESPECTIVE IF THE MASS IS IN LATIN OR THE VERNACULAR
All Catholics should interpret Vatican Council II only with the rational premise(blue column) and not the irrational premise( red column) so there is no rational rupture with Tradition, the strict interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(EENS), the Athanasius Creed with no practical exceptions, the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX with no known exceptions in 2021 and the Catechism of Pope Pius X 24Q and 27Q, with invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire not being practical exceptions.
So they would be affirming Vatican Council II, the Catechisms of the Catholic Church and other Magisterial documents interpreted with the rational and not irrational premise.
July 22, 2021
The German problem with the red irrational column
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/07/the-german-problem-with-red-irrational.html
July 22, 2021
Pope Francis interprets Vatican Council II with a false premise this is not Magisterial. Traditionis Custode wants everyone to interpret Vatican Council II with a fake premise to create a false rupture with Tradition and then offer/attend the Latin Mass
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/07/pope-francis-interprets-vatican-council_22.html
July 22, 2021
Pope Francis interprets Vatican Council II with a fake premise so Traditionis Custode cannot be Magisterial. He needs to publicly correct the error.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/07/pope-francis-interprets-vatican-council.html
July 21, 2021
All the pontifical universities interpret Vatican Council II with the irrational red column to create an artificial rupture with Catholic Tradition
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/07/all-pontifical-universities-interpret.html
July 21, 2021
Rahner, Ratzinger, Congar,Murray and Cushing in 1965 not only changed the Church's teaching on their being exclusive salvation in the Church by using a false premise, but they also mentioned 'particular churches', in other words the Orthodox Christians and Protestants are canonically within the Catholic Church.Now in the Letter which accompanying Traditionis Custode it is mentioned as if this is the 'true Church' and not a paralled Church with Tradition
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/07/rahner-ratzinger-congarmurray-and.html
Tell that to the Catholics who have already found the TLM is gone due to this edict. To me it's a pleasant spin but out of touch with what Francis clearly intends, to eliminate the TLM entirely. One assumes he will only come back with a stronger edict if this one doesn't finish the job. He knows he's got to hurry, his colon made this all imperative. He's running out of time!
Cardinal Burke put out a comforting and interesting response, he speaks to the question of whether or not Francis "owns" the Holy Mass, and says he does not. "He has not the power" to do what he is doing.
The other twaddle about whether or not TLM devotees endorse VII is a mere distraction, completely irrelevant to the situation, it's an excuse and a meager one. You don't "ban" the Mass of the Ages because you gave out a questionnaire and some bishops who also hate the TLM make some squeaks about the Usus Antiquior. And you don't "ban" it because some Catholics are cranky after years of attack and make comments on social media. You "ban" it because you hate it, and you want it gone, as do your other fellow apostates (if they ever believed).
Tyrants everywhere are feeling the mojo right now, enjoying their moment of power, this is their day. But their day will come to a close, and because they are actually fighting God, they will summarily lose that which they thought they accomplished, and more.
I am actually fine with the abrogation of Summorum Pontificum.
There is no place for the New™️ Mass in the same world as the Holy Mass of Ages.
They are not the same thing. There is no equivalence. The Bishop of Rome recognizes this as do the Bishops in union with him. And they are correct.
Quo Primum.
Long live the Mass of Ages in union with the RCC of eternity.
Aqua, you say a lot of terrific things and here you've said a really terrific thing. I agree with you, and due to SSPX Father Pagliarani's comments of late, it is obvious he agrees with you, and now that it is out in the open, we really should let it all come out.
Francis is on to something. I can only speak for this TLM-attendee, myself, the rites are not the same in any way. The TLM is the Mass of the Ages and the Novus Ordo is well, not. But Father digs into why, and what he says makes perfect sense. Father Pagliarani makes the point these are 2 very different rites for a different faith entirely.
Well worth reading. Perhaps we should open the windows and let some sunshine in?? Imagine truth...after all these years. That would be something.
Anonymous 12.09
It’s is all very well what high arguments Fr. Pagliarani has to say, but until he recognises the true Holy Father then he is leading his flock in error. He can quote Pope Pius V but not Pope Benedict XVI who restored the Mass back to the church. Maybe when the Russian Orthodox Church converts we might find traditional clerics worthy of Holy Mother! Fr. P has the opportunity to back the true Holy Father and champion the Mass of Ages in the One Holy Catholic Church. But will he?
JULY 27, 2021
The traditionalist-liberal division based upon the Latin Mass is an illusion
Fr.Alfonso Maria Bruno was thanked this month by Brother Joseph( Pierre) one of the seminarians at Casalotti, Boccea Rome of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate.He was ordained a priest at the Salesian basilica of the Sacred Heart, Rome.He was one of the four new priests who lived in the parish seminary, before the seminary was transferred last year to Tiburtina, Rome.
Since I lived in the parish often they could not avoid meeting me and talking to me.I would tell Fra.Joseph, who is from France that the entire text of Unitatis Redintigratio, Decree on Ecumenism, Vatican Council II, did not contradict the strict interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus (EENS) and an ecumenism of return to the Catholic Church.He was surprised initially since this was not his religious formation at the Boccea seminary or the Pontifical Gregorian University, Rome.
I would tell him that his catechesis in the parish,Santa Maria di Nazareth, was inadequate.This was not the teaching of the Church over the centuries.He would not teach the lay parishioners that there was exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church. This was unthinkable for him.He would mention St. Peter of Alcantara and I would remind him that the saint taught traditional exclusive salvation, in Jesus as Jesus was known in the Catholic Church.
Of course Joseph knew that if he taught that there is exclusive salvation in Jesus and only the Catholic Church he could not continue to remain at the seminary or study at the university.The Left would object. He had to interpret Vatican Council II irrationally, to create the New Theology.Then he could project false exceptions for EENS and an ecumenism of return. Now as a priest he will continue to teach the error which was obligatory, for all seminarians and priests here.
This could be a reason why Pope Francis closed the seminary in 2013.He told the seminarians who remained to study only at the pontifical universities.He may have been concerned. They could interpret Vatican Council II with the false premise, like him and the SSPX, but reject the conclusion, like the SSPX and then return to traditional sources which supported ecclesiocentrism.So now we know that Pope Francis's liberalism comes with the false interpretation of Vatican Council II and not the rational interpretation of the Council-text. We have found his Achilles heel.
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Father Joseph may not die as a martyr since he believed and taught that there was salvation outside the Catholic Church.His ecclesiology of course is different from that of the Early Christians(Catholics).
He will not get into trouble with the police since with Vatican Council II interpreted irrationally he is following the Leftist ideology of the state in Italy.
He would be quick to denounce me since my rational interpretation of Vatican Council II is not politically correct with the Left and his religious superiors.
Also if he interpreted Vatican Council II rationally without the false premise, Fr. Alfonso Maria Bruno and Fr. Rosario Sammarco would not ordain him or allow him to continue as a priest.
It is important not to see this as a liberal traditionalist issue.No,no.Joseph could be conservative in many ways.
He is from an area in France where the traditionalists interpret Vatican Council II with the same false premise as those who are labelled liberals.It is part of the formation of the SSPX and FSSP priests there.
Joseph is sincere in his faith. He would make a good pries in so many ways. He can now give people the Sacraments and save them from going to Hell and Satan.But like all priests today, traditionalists, liberals….he has had his formatioin with Vatican Council II interpreted irrationally. This is a political faith. It is not Catholic.
Just like Fr. Alphonso Maria Bruno f.i , Una Voce International officials, Roberto dei Mattei,Fr Stefano Maria Manelli f.i and Fr.Gabriel Maria Pellettieri f.i,,Cardinal Braz de Avez, Fr. Sabino Ardito sdb, the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate, Dr.Joseph Shaw, theologians John Lamont, Thomas Pink and John Rao,traditionalist Chris Ferrara and the owner of the blog Rorate Caeili - all, like the seminarians at Casalotti, Boccea and Fra Joseph, are interpreting Vatican Council II with the false premise.
The traditionalist-liberal division based upon the Latin Mass is an illusion.
Joseph can offer Mass in Latin or French in France and there would be a rupture with EENS, Syllabus of Errors etc.
The FSSP priests can offer Mass in Latin or French in Dijon, France and there would still be the same rupture with Tradition ( Syllabus of Errors, Catechism of Pope Pius X ( 24Q,27Q) etc).
It is the subtle false premise which creates the division in the Church and not the Latin Mass.The Left does not know this and so they have forced Pope Francis to place restrictions on the Latin Mass with Traditionis Custode.
Fr. Alfonso Maria Bruno did not know this when he ‘welcomed the apostolic visitation, accusing the sisters of becoming accustomed to using the Extraordinary Form exclusively and that their decision had then been “exploited” by traditionalist groups.’(Wikipedia).
The issue never really was the Extraordinary Form of the Mass.The immediate issue was Vatican Council II and EENS.The issue is how do you interpret Vatican Council II ? As a rupture or continuation withthe dogma EENS, the Athanasius Creed and the past ecclesiocentric ecclesiology?
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre did not know this.He thought it was the Mass which created the break with Tradition and he wanted Rome to come back to the traditional faith.
He was correct.Rome had broken with the traditional faith.But this was done by interpreting Vatican Council II irrationally.Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger could have interpreted Vatican Council II rationally instead of excommunicating him.Pope Paul VI could have interpreted Vatican Council II without the false premise and he would have gone back to Tradition.
Rome, can still come back to the Faith. All that the Vatican has to do is identify the false premise and announce that it should be avoided by all Catholics.They are obligated to interpret Vatican Council II honestly, with the rational premise.
Then even Father Joseph will have to come back to the Faith.-Lionel Andrades
https://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2021/07/the-traditionalist-liberal-division.html
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