Bishops, Cardinals, the Catholic faithful demand you do your duty before God!
Pope Francis, I don't want you to refer me to what a Cardinal said, what do you say?
Let your yes be yes and your no be no!
Well, you said, "yes!"
Francis: 'New concrete possibilities' for remarried after family exhortation
by Joshua J. McElwee | Apr. 16, 2016
ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE TO ROME -- Pope Francis has affirmed that his recent apostolic exhortation on family life has opened up "new concrete possibilities" for Catholics who divorce and remarry without first obtaining annulments.
In a press conference on his way back from a one-day visit to Lesbos, Greece, a reporter told the pontiff that some had interpreted the language in his exhortation to mean that there were no specific changes to the church's pastoral practice for remarried Catholics while others thought there were.
"Are there new concrete possibilities that did not exist before the publication of the exhortation, or no?" asked the journalist.
"I can say yes," responded Francis. "Period."
The pontiff then suggested that people looking for more information consult the presentation given by Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schönborn at the Vatican April 8, the day the new exhortation, titled Amoris Laetitia ("The Joy of Love"), was released.
Lest you doubt the translation, read Hilary and the manipulation by Vatican Radio to get it wrong.
24 comments:
Vox, my dear brother in Jesus Christ. We need to place Pope Francis' "I can say yes, many (pr "period") remark in context. It is vital that we read farther in that Pope Francis said that we must "read the presentation of Cardinal Schonborn, who is a great theologian. He was the secretary for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, and he knows the doctrine of the faith well. In that presentation, your question will find an answer."
Cardinal Schonborn stated clearly at the press conference that there is "no break"..."no change" to the question at hand. He also noted that the "controversial" footnote referred to Confession.
Vox, Cardinal Schonborn was tapped to present Amoris Laetitia to the news media. His Holiness Pope Francis didn't do anything wrong in having referred us to Cardinal Schonborn's official presentation of Amoris Laetitia to the world.
The Cardinal spoke on behalf of the Church during the press conference in question.
Vox, Cardinal Schonborn has made it clear that the Church's teachings on family, marriage, divorce and new "unions" stand. Familiaris Consortio stands, as Cardinal Schonborn made clear.
The "controversy" is settled. The conservatives last week were correct when they declared that Amoris Laetitia rejected the revolutionary forces within the Church who had wished to employ the Exhortation to redefine marriage and sodomy.
Vox, the revolutionaries won't quit. But Amoris Laetitia routed their goal to destroy the Church's teachings in regard to family, marriage, and sexuality.
The Apostolic See presented Amoris Laetitia in the light of Holy Tradition.
Vox, you are a holy man who loves Jesus Christ and his teachings on family and marriage. You won, Vox. Vox, the Truth won.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
When it comes to Christian Marriage men shall not separate what God has united. Excommunication, total excommunication (not the false excommunication, Vatican style) is the result of disobeying the Commandment of Jesus.
Christianity is about separating people, creating fights and discords, even among family members. Among those who follow Jesus and those who don't or refuse. It's that simple. Read the Bible.
Christians are Jesus's slaves (St. Paul's words), not anything or anybody else's.
I'm absolutely sure that those who stuck to the teachings of Jesus, those who loved Jesus more than anything else, more than themselves, more than church buildings, statues, Saints, Pastors or Popes, and more than their neighbor (you can't love your neighbor unless you love yourself as a lover of Jesus), I'm absolutely sure that the number of TRUE Christians throughout history would have been much less than it is counted now.
Read the Bible. Read Jesus. It's easy to read, but it's not easy to meditate and to put into practice the words of Jesus. Popes have failed to do it.
Christianity, not only of today, but for a long, long, long time was, is and will be a so-called "charitable" secular organization, under the guise of "religious."
When are we going to take Jesus seriously?
You're really charitable in calling him a great theologian.
...wow, in place of clarity, we now have ambiguity and chaos. All anyone in an irregular situation needs to do is "have the internal forum" whatever that means.
C Jorge can say what he likes, true Catholics will follow Christ, not this anti-Pope. This is not C Jorge's Church as he claims it to be, this is Christ's Church anyone who follows and worships this anti-pope can not possibly follow Christ.. Period!
Try reading the Lifesite News report of today (16 April, 2016)It sure looks like the Bishop of Rome has made the final clarification, despite the chorus of the "he didn't REALLY say that" choir! Look at the video (hope you understand Italian) - read the comments of many, many other Catholics and then ask yourself, Mark Thomas, are you standing alone, being the only person to REALLY understand the situation and the rest of us ignorant fools?! You can 'Vox' this and 'Vox' that as much as you like, but boot-licking is no substitute for accurate discernment of a really bad situation which should have been nipped in the bud ere now! In caritas.
Oh look, Mark Thomas is commenting on Vox Cantoris. I wonder if he'll try and ban those who disagree with him.
Mark Thomas,
I have responded to your comment at this link:
Amoris Laetitia is the official approval of the new moral theology based on hypothetical cases being objectively known exceptions and exceptions make the rule : it supports the errors of Fr.Charles Curran
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2016/04/amoris-laetitia-is-official-approval-of.html
Vox
In his A Catechism of Modernism, founded on the encyclical letter PASCENDI DOMINICI GREGIS, author Rev. J.B. Lemius, O.M.I., conducts an imaginary interview with Pope Pius X. In the preamble, the author asks:
Q. Where are the "partisans of error" to be found? Are they open enemies?
A. That We make no delay in this matter is rendered necessary especially by the fact that the partisans of error are to be sought not only among the Church's open enemies; they lie hid, a thing to be deeply deplored and feared, in her bosom and heart, and are the more mischievous the less conspicuously they appear.
Well, these enemies are no longer hidden. Their mischief is quite conspicuous. The Nouvelle Theologie triumphed fifty years ago. It has just taken that long for it to overtake, completely, the papacy. So sad and so painful, it is, that the current Pope is now an open enemy. Shortly after his election, Bishop Fellay referred to Jorge as a thorough going Modernist. Of course, the SSPX boss hit the nail on the head. When asked about Fellay's comment, Cardinal Pell, promptly dismissed it. Will Pell still keep his head in the sand? Bishops, those of you, who still have some sense, of doctrinal integrity, please STAND UP!. Is there a bishop in the house?
With all due respect, Mark Thomas, there is complete denial in your post. The sooner you take off those rose colored glasses the better off you will be. Francis is most definitely marching immorality into the Church of Christ thru the back door. Nothing formal, of that they are most clear and EMPHATIC about, but with a nod and a wink. Once the 'practice' of the doctrine is in full swing the doctrine will have 'informally' changed, and basically and 'eventually' will become null and void, AND those that try to uphold the TRUE DOCTRINE will be systematically and under the cover of what looks like a 'logical' reason eliminated. Those prelates will be sent off to no mans land. Make no mistake about it. This Pope is heretical.
Why must we "read the presentation of Cardinal Schonborn" to find that nothing has changed? Why does it take a "great theologian" to explain nothing? Couldn't, perhaps, a poor or mediocre theologian have been given his 15 seconds of fame to announce that, "Nothing has changed. Ite missa est."?
From today's Introit:
Say unto God: How terrible are thy works, O Lord! in
the multitude of thy strength thy enemies shall lie to
thee.
During his August 5, 2015 A.D. General Audience, His Holiness Pope Francis said that he "would like to focus our attention on another reality: how to take care of those who, after an irreversible failure of their matrimonial bond, have entered into a new union.
"The Church is fully aware that such a situation is contrary to the Christian Sacrament."
In #46 of his Encyclical Lumen Fidei, Pope Francis declared that the Catechism of the Catholic Church "is a fundamental aid for that unitary act with which the Church communicates the entire content of her faith: all that she herself is, and all that she believes".
In the CCC, we read the following from Pope Saint John Paul II: "The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church's faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church's Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion."
Via the CCC, we can obtain with certainty the True Church's teaching in regard to the reception of Holy Communion by Catholics who have divorced and entered into new unions.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
On February 17, 2016 A.D., Pope Francis responded as follows when he was asked in regard to his then-upcoming Apostolic Exhortation Amoris Laetitia whether Catholics who had divorced and entered into new unions would be able to receive Holy Communion:
https://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2016/february/documents/papa-francesco_20160217_messico-conferenza-stampa.html
"This is something... this is where it hits home. Being integrated into the Church does not mean “taking communion”. I know remarried Catholics who go to Church once or twice a year: “I want to receive communion!”, as if communion were a commendation. It is a matter of integration... the doors are all open.
"*******But one cannot just say: from now on “they can take communion”.*******
"This would also wound the spouses, the couple, because it won’t help them on the path to integration.
"These two were happy! They used a really lovely expression: “We do not take eucharistic communion, but we do find communion by visiting people in the hospital, in this or that service...”. Their integration is there. If there is something more, the Lord will tell them, but ... it is a journey, it is a path...."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There it is. His Holiness Pope Francis declared in clear and undeniable fashion that that divorced and "remarried" Catholics may not receive Holy Communion.
Pope Francis also defined clearly that which he has identified as being "integrated" into the Church. His use of "integration" into the Church entails the performance of acts of charity by divorced and "remarried" Catholics.
For such couples, that is their form of "communion", as Pope Francis noted. They are not permitted to receive "eucharistic communion". Again, their "communion" is found within acts of service to God's Church and Creation.
The above is clear and undeniable.
Divorced and "remarried" Catholics many not receive Holy Communion. Instead, they integrate themselves into the Church and receive their form of "Communion" via service to the Church and Creation.
Pope Francis has upheld the Church's teaching in regard to marriage.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Bishop Mark Davies of the Catholic Diocese of Shrewsbury (Great Britian) declared in a letter today that he released to his flock that in "The Joy of Love in the Family” (Amoris Laetitia)...Catholic teaching on marriage, the family and human sexuality remains unchanged."
Bishop Davies also declared that His Holiness Pope Francis "shows us how a truly pastoral response must always indicate clearly the path leading to life by unambiguously offering the truth about marriage and the family that has been entrusted to the Church ( cf. AL 58-88, 292, 307)."
The authentic teacher of the True Faith in Shrewsbury has spoken in regard to the Exhortation. Deo gratias.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
The guy just deposed himself.
"A pope who is a manifest heretic automatically (per se) ceases to be pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and a member of the Church. Wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction." (St. Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Romano Pontifice. II.30.)
TLM said..."This Pope is heretical."
TLM I realize that you are fervent in your love of God and Holy Mother Church. I believe that His Holiness Pope Francis is akin to you in that regard. That doesn't mean that his each decision that he makes as Pope will prove beneficial to the Church. He has acknowledged that he has made mistakes as Pope.
TLM, the possibility of making a mistake applies also to you and I. I realize that you disagree with the following: TLM, I believe that you are mistaken in your claim that Pope Francis is "heretical".
However, the following goes well beyond our respective opinions in question. The following touches upon the Faith.
TLM, assuming that you are a Latin Church Catholic, at Mass today, did your priest, during his praying of the Roman Canon (or a different Eucharistic Prayer, depending upon whatever rite that you attended) commemorate Pope Francis?
(Perhaps you are Eastern Catholic. Your priest today commemorated Pope Francis within and without the Anaphora.)
Returning to Latin Church liturgy, Did your priest offer unto God a prayer for "Thy servant, Francis, our Pope?" If your priest did so, then he commemorated a heretic. If you attached yourself to said Mass, then you expressed your communion with a "heretic".
If your priest did not commemorate Pope Francis today, then by whose authority did he alter, which is a grave act, the Roman Canon (or Eucharistic Prayer)?
Also, if Pope Francis is a "heretic", then who is Pope?
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Nice work finding those quotes, Mark Thomas - but the rational Catholic would have to ask: if this is what Bergoglio truly teaches, and he is able to say so in a small number of words, why did he require 265 pages, and a couple of very dangerous footnotes, to give the world the exact opposite impression?
Why did he even open the question? Why did he prompt Kasper to come forward with his 'penitential path' and 'internal forum' in Feb 2014? Why did he call two (!) divisive synods, and personally stack the committees with arch-'liberals'? Why the 'nudge-nudge, wink-winks' to the atheist Scalfari? Why do we need an extremely questionable bishop from Austria to tell us that the end-result is orthodox and 'sacraments' only means penance? Why are the destroyers in the Church proclaiming a revolution..? HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE POPE - WHY DOES HE NOT SIMPLY TEACH THE TRUTH?
Do you not understand that the sowing of confusion and chaos is the stock in trade of the revolutionary?
You are obviously well-informed. But are you that blind?
Me thinks a Catholic Answers moderator has ventured into the lion's den.
Matthew said...
1. "...the rational Catholic would have to ask: if this is what Bergoglio truly teaches, and he is able to say so in a small number of words, why did he require 265 pages, and a couple of very dangerous footnotes, to give the world the exact opposite impression?"
Matthew, the 60,000-word Apostolic Exhortation is unwieldy in its length. However, any amount of Pope Francis' most vocal critics have acknowledged that the Exhortation is filled overwhelmingly with beautiful Catholic teaching.
Matthew, your assertion that the Exhortation contains "a couple of very dangerous footnotes, to give the world the exact opposite impression" is rejected by one Churchman after another.
Most important, Cardinal Schonborn declared that Amoris Laetitia contains "no break", "no change" to Church teaching on family and marriage. Cardinal Schonborn also declared that the Exhortation is 100 percent in line with Familiaris Consortio.
One Cardinal and bishop after another has insisted that Amoris Laetitia is orthodox. Added to that lengthy list is Bishop Mark Davies of the Catholic Diocese of Shrewsbury (Great Britian). As I noted earlier on this thread, Bishop Davies declared yesterday that the Exhortation is beautiful and orthodox.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Matthew said..."Why did he even open the question? Why did he prompt Kasper to come forward with his 'penitential path' and 'internal forum' in Feb 2014? Why did he call two (!) divisive synods, and personally stack the committees with arch-'liberals'?"
Matthew, for better or worse, part of Pope Francis' style is to encourage frank discussion to fill the Church. He desires to mix things up within the Church.
Unfortunately, in regard to the Synods, things had spun out of control seemingly.
I said "seemingly" as in fairness to Pope Francis, he insisted that the news media had misrepresented the Synod on the Family.
Interestingly, during both Synods, many bishops echoed Pope Francis' remark in question. One bishop after another declared that what the news media, within and without the Church, had reported in regard to the Synods was false.
Matthew, Synod Fathers have rejected the notion that the Synods were "divisive".
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Matthew said..."Why do we need an extremely questionable bishop from Austria to tell us that the end-result is orthodox and 'sacraments' only means penance? Why are the destroyers in the Church proclaiming a revolution..?"
Matthew, His Holiness Pope Francis tapped Cardinal Schönborn to participate in the presentation of Amoris Laetitia to the Church and world. He has praised the Cardinal as a "great theologian". Pope Francis noted that Cardinal Schönborn "was the secretary for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, and he knows the doctrine of the faith well. In that presentation, your question will find an answer."
Pope Francis has tremendous confidence in Cardinal Schönborn. Cardinal Schönborn was a student of then-university professor Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI) as well as a confidant of Pope Benedict XVI. Pope Saint John Paul II held Cardinal Schönborn in high regard. Cardinal Schönborn is seen by many Catholics as a holy and learned man.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Vox, thank you for having allowed me to offer several responses to Matthew.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Go back to Catholic Answers, Mark Thomas, you're embarrassing yourself. You are too well informed to have missed Cardinal Kasper's and Schonborn's statements. They claim doctrine hasn't changed but the application of it has even in contradictory situations. I suspect you know this which makes your diatribes here knowingly false - lies.
Kitchener Waterloo Trad. Catholic - Diatribes is the right word for the endless justifications that pour forth from Mark Thomas. Whereas other commenters are happy with one - maybe two comments - on any given subject, this man goes on and on - slapping everyone else down with his interminable flow of "informed" facts. Does he ever sleep? I am tired of seeing his skewed responses to others and his in your face attitude, despite the many Pax endings. So much so, I shall not be reading this blog nor posting a comment on it anytime soon. I know everyone is permitted to their opinion, but not everyone likes to be blasted with a water cannon of superior (cut and paste) knowledge each time the Bishop of Rome is discussed. Thanks for the ride,Vox . It's been good knowing you and God with you as we all travel on the narrow path to our Heavenly Destination.
Eirene,
I appreciate your comments here, and Mark's. I am not about to bar anyone unless they are vulgar towards Our Lord or His Church or blasphemous or a troll out to harass me.
I'm not about to censor those who wish to debate here. It is important in this time that we all stick together and try to find in everyone here, something positive that is contributed.
Mark has much to contribute and can frequently keep us balanced. I do encourage him to continue and I do hope you will be back.
Vox
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