As is known, George Cardinal Pell was found guilty in an Australian court and is in prison, with bail denied, awaiting his sentencing, an appeal has been announced.
This was a controversial case. I find it incredulous, unbelievable that any bishop could assault an altar boy in the sacristy after Mass. The bishop would be the first to leave, there would be all kinds of people around. It does seem odd. The evidence seems to be scant. One alleged witness or victim is dead and denied ever being assaulted.
It all seems a set-up.
Unless, it isn't.
People are proclaiming his innocence and describing the Australian justice system as "Kangaroo" Courts, if you'll pardon the expression. Some opine that it was a Bergoglian set-up because he was getting too close to financial corruption and the Australian Left and sodomite union was happy to do it.
I have no doubt that Bergoglio is capable of anything, absolutely anything. But on this band-wagon for or against him, I am not jumping on.
A reader has asked me to post this link and I shall.
https://www.change.org/p/victorian-appelate-court-there-are-reasonable-doubts-re-the-allegations-against-cardinal-pell-people-need-to-know?cs_tk=Apm3ORDUNV9xBDgHflwAAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvM8AHgPeza8rmGQ3ZQPjMug%3D&utm_campaign=b53858a06e8543a3b7b9ba84ef39a59c&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_signer_receipt&utm_term=cs%20%2011:40%20am,%20March%2002,%202019
There is this.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/faith-innocence-sustain-stoic-leader-in-darkest-hour/news-story/3c401ae4c0d28c23fc27e6ab0c2251b8?fbclid=IwAR2hLd7dRMHnjC3m5ZhWlaHwkL_wLsXaaVD17ElvLwPCAwIQWvUuzcExZNA
My question is this. Are we engaged in denial and wishful thinking because Cardinal Pell is a conservative, whatever that may be in the present day church crisis?
What if it is true?
64 comments:
Anything is possible in the case of Cardinal Pell but there is much speculation that, given his past record as a good Cardinal, he is likely innocent. What reason do do you have to make the insinuations that you do? Do you know something we do not? If not, then please do not make insinuations. If so, please indicate the evidence you have.
My gut tells me Pell is being framed on this charge. But who knows. Pell has made his bed with the NO false religion and they have turned on him. He has decieved scores of faithful catholics for decades. I cannot believe a man who rose to his rank did not know decades ago that the NO clergy were infested with homosexuals. Why didn't he speak out? He went along with the program and is now paying the price. He may be a conservative, but first he is a modernist. He compromised his Faith with ecumenism, he turned a blind eye to the homosexual infestation, and now he is being pushed out of the way lest he pose a threat to the more progressive modernists. I think those trad and conservative Catholics who still believe the NO establishment is the Catholic Church, better get used to the idea that the next false pope after Bergoglio is not going to be some conservative that puts some of the pieces back together. Its game over folks, wymen deacons, interreligious worship services, sodomitic marriages, this is all coming to a parish near you soon. Don't panic.
I am not making any insinuation. I am asking a question? Or do you not know the difference?
Listen to comments from his own defense lawyer. It was ONLY plain vanilla sexual acts. "Plain Vanilla" pederasty?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtoUNNBQHxQ
Mrs Engel explains what sodomites consider "plain vanilla" in "The Rite of Sodomy".
Pell is a proven liar as demonstrated by these two interviews wherein he contradicts his own words.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4_hoy_fJWc&t=2647s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAZmxkphdwU
Cardinal Pell brought Opus Dei into Australia and it is the Opus Dei financially owned and or financed media that is now raising questions about his conviction in the minds of the Catholic laity.
See articles by Opus Dei apologists like Wiegel and others.
Opus Dei comes to the defense of it's own as in this case covered by this OD connected news outlet
https://cruxnow.com/church-in-europe/2018/11/21/ex-teacher-at-spanish-opus-dei-school-fights-conviction-for-abuse/
If I remember accurately the eventually convicted OD Numerary sexual child abuser was given a safe haven in Aussie Land
when the accusations first surfaced and were reported to the Vatican.
Even if it is true (God forbid), the verdict should probably have been Not Guilty according to the law.
We had one accuser--the other putative (deceased) victim having twice told his mother that he had never been abused--describing a highly unlikely circumstance 23 years ago that was uncorroborated by anyone else present at the time, and that the Cardinal strenuously denied. Nothing about the story makes sense to anyone who has been inside a sacristy before or after Mass: The abuse taking place in a bustling, semi-public area, the difficulty of maneuvering an archbishop's vestments to facilitate the abuse, the sheer recklessness of the act against all public evidence of Pell's character...
How does this even begin to rise to the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard?
Having said that, I do not think that ++Pell is a martyr or anything of the sort. I found his Australian 60 Minutes interview to be sickening, wherein Pell is clearly caught lying. I have been told by Australian priests and laypeople that the situation in Australia with regards to priests chasing and assaulting lads is absolutely terrible and has been for over 60 years, and that as children in Catholic schools the boys were propositioned almost every time they entered the confessional. It was constant and ubiquitous. Australia and New Zealand, like Germany and the Low Countries, should probably be put under interdict and considered mission territory.
-Also, the very fact that ++Pell jumped in bed with Antipope Bergoglio at all speaks volumes. Folks, we HAVE to start judging people by their associations.
-I won’t be surprised if Pell doesn’t last long in prison. He is one of the most hated men in Australia, and sociopaths when they hit rock bottom can be suicidal. I personally don’t think fear of hell is much on a man like Pell’s radar. I hope I’m wrong.https://www.barnhardt.biz/category/uncategorized/
Dear Vox, as God is my witness I swear this prince of the Church is a victim of a massive witch-hunt orchestrated by the devil himself. The evil one has many helpers down under, but the lord has only a few, so i ask in the name of our most Holy lord that you may assist your christian brothers and sister in Australia and post the link i provide in support of Cardinal Pell: Reasonable doubts about allegations & guilty verdict.
We the Faithful Catholics in Australia have had enough of the evil that has taken hold of this once beautiful Christian country.
May God Bless you!
https://www.change.org/p/victorian-appelate-court-there-are-reasonable-doubts-re-the-allegations-against-cardinal-pell-people-need-to-know?cs_tk=Apm3ORDUNV9xBDgHflwAAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvM8AHgPeza8rmGQ3ZQPjMug%3D&utm_campaign=b53858a06e8543a3b7b9ba84ef39a59c&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_signer_receipt&utm_term=cs
Some years ago I also saw an interview with a now elderly Gym Manager in which he caught Pell standing naked in front of three or four young boys. He told him to dress himself and said when he came back fifteen minutes later he was still naked in front of the boys and later was "horsing around with them in the pool".
McCarrick was fond of swimming with boys as were some of the priests in the St Charles Borromeo Seminary pool.
See Bishop Accountability on the Philadelphia Grand Jury Report for that particular horror show.
I know of one priest who transferred to Australia believing Pell to be a bastion of orthodoxy . He returned disapointed within the year.
Vox i will also add, that you will get more traffic than usual from Catholic Church haters in Australia, they have trolled every Catholic Blog posting absolute rubbish, mark my words and check your IP stats. Cardinal Pell is the victim of hatred against the Church. This country has become a socialistic, atheistic, communistic country, some of them are so vile and abusive i can't help but think and pray they do not have children. As for Ann Barnhardt, i will no longer read any of her blogs, she knows nothing,Period!
Educate yourselves and learn how these modernist cults within the church structure have the power to propagandize the laity.
https://culteducation.com/group/1086-opus-dei/15672-pell-opus-dei-and-signs-of-a-new-elitism-.html
Have we not learned anything from Maciel?
Fr Williams former LC ,who impregnated Mary Ann Glendon's
( former US Ambassador to the Holy See)daughter, after having been well known to cruise for and date seminarians he taught at the Regina Apostolrum in Rome.
https://stumblingblock.org/?p=10716
"EXACTLY LIKE MCCARRICK, Thomas Williams used his power over students under his authority in order to procure sex and sodomy."
https://www.barnhardt.biz/2018/08/28/frthomaswilliamsexactlylikemccarrick/
Now tell me..How is it Liz Lev and her now husband Fr Williams have just been given a Grant from Notre Dame ?
Well, a thing like what he is being accused of does not happen only once. When someone has pedophilic tendencies, it will happen again and again. 'What if' does not justify sending a cardinal of the Church to jail for the rest of his life or, for that matter, for any time at all. There is no evidence, it supposedly happened a couple of decades ago, it supposedly happened under circumstances that everyone can see are virtually impossible and the reputation and life of a man who has served the Church is at stake. He denies consistently that it ever happened. And you say 'what if'? I appreciate the fact that he is, as you say, conservative. But I am traditional so 'conservative' to me is still part of the problem. One may be well for Vatican II and still be called 'conservative'. So that is not the reason that I and so many defend him. He is simply and obviously to anyone with their head screwed on straight, innocent. That he is being framed, there is no doubt.
Good Lord people why do you think KoC support the likes of Rosica? Carl Anderson the President of the KoC is Opus Dei.
Every single time there is a controversy about some prelate or priest among the Faithful , you can lift the rock to find opus dei slithering under it.
So many garbage responses already. No-one cares if you think this or that other thing might have happened some other time, or if you don't like Pell because he's a modernist, or if he kicked your dog that one time.
The only relevant question here is, Is George Pell guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of these specific charges against him?
Your personal hobbyhorses could not be less relevant. Start using your God-given reason, like Catholics do.
Here's some information from Australia.
https://play.acast.com/s/theboltreport/theboltreport-tuesday26thfebruary
http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=58453
Mar
In ANY reputable court there MUST be a standard of proof, BEYOND any REASONABLE doubt, in order to convict.
Without corroboration, EVERY HE SAID, SHE SAID, THE OTHER ONE SAID...
MUST RESULT IN AN ACQUITTAL.
I was not there. Nor have I read any published accounts. BUT, unless more than one person testified, as an EYE WITNESS, or there was some kind of recording device or other CERTAIN AND ABSOLUTELY ESTABLISHED PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, there can be NO CONVICTION WITHOUT CORRUPTION!!!
I am appalled at the perverts who are taking advantage of their position(s) and sexually abusing ANYONE, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN. But,
facts, NOT emotions, MUST prevail, or it is time for MONUMENTAL, EARTHSHAKING GOVERNMENTAL CHANGES, AS ARE NECESSARY TO ENSURE THAT FACTS RUN THINGS AND NOT FEELINGS. The SAME HOLDS FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
PERIOD!!!
Karl
Murray, "God given reason" Catholics have had their head in the sand for decades.
I lived in NJ and remember the laity defending our Assistant Pastor as a holy man wrongly accused when parents finally went to the police and reported the abuse of their 13 year old in the Confessional by him. Then other parents and women ,who were once little girls who were abused by him, came forward. All of them having reported the abuse to the Pastor for over ten years, assured by him that he would "take care of it". It wasn't until one set of really "God given reason" parents went first to the police that something really happened to stop the perp.
We heard all of the excuses made by the foolish laity. "He is holy, He makes rosaries himself, He is so conservative."
And about the other families who came forward reporting they had told the pastor only over the years....."Monkey see ,monkey do, they just want money in a lawsuit."
The pastor fessed up he knew for over a decade and slipped the perp 5 grand from the collection plate to leave the country. He died doing his 'community service in another Diocese in another state. The perp is still wanted by the FBI.
Very few average Catholics have "God given common sense" when it comes to perverted sexual abuse of minors or the financial powers behind the Vatican coverups, unless they educated themselves.
As for Barnhardt........she covered the Jait Case in S America months before CMtv picked up on it with facts and video.
Personal opines aside. I look for the facts.
Fact......Pell protected pervs he had authority to expel.
All Bishops like him should get the hell out along with their homosexual underlings.
He is innocent as a lamb, until they prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
From what I’ve seen, they did not meet that standard.
That needs to be a pretty high bar before you cross that line. They didn’t even get a toe across. I’m waiting for them to show their work that led them to 12-0. Haven’t seen it yet.
Anon,
What possible relevance does your anecdote have to the quality of evidence presented in the trial of Cardinal Pell? Do you have any opinion onthat specific matter, rather than on something that happened on another continent at another time?
To Anonymous @ 1:05 pm,
There's a big difference between laity defending a member of the clergy by saying: "He is holy, he makes rosaries himself, he is so conservative", and laity defending him because they are aware of the anomalies of the trial, and the fact that the evidence presented was uncorroborated to such an extent that it could not be said that the alleged events happened beyond reasonable doubt.
Even non-Catholic criminal lawyers with no particular interest in Cardinal Pell were astonished by the conviction.
Mar
I am no great fan of Cardinal Pell, but I fear the power of the state. The judge and the government in Australia would very much like the power to tell the Catholic Church what it, the Church, will and will not believe, practice, etc.; order the Church to ordain women, etc.. This verdict is dangerous and identifies Australia as a "de facto" totalitarian country.
I agree with you Vox. We need to stand back, and allow this story to evolve. Australia is not a Soviet style show trail country. Let us not forget that all the pre-conciliar abusers were all "traditionalists". Time will tell about Pell.
As others here have said, it is important to judge the case at hand on evidence relevant to the situation. It seems in this case there was a travesty of justice.
Separately we can investigate if there are other cases against him, and whether he hid and protected sexual abusers. Many bishops currently in office have probably excused, his, moved, or otherwise protected abusing priests. This is the larger issue.
The bishops, as we have just seen with the sex summit, will do nothing to stop sexual abuse by priests. We must face that fact.
My opinion.
With regard to this specific trial - it seems that Pell is being set-up.
While Pell may be described as modernist, compromised over past cover-ups etc. etc. I see no reason to believe that he couldn't have run afoul of Francis, despite being all for working with Francis initially.
If anything, the recent brouhaha over Justin Trudeau and the fact that one of his own Liberal-friendly judges has exposed him, just goes to show that, yes, even a friend of Francis can grow a conscience, and this can get them in hot water with one of their own.
So, with that in mind, and the entire shady operation being run by the Australian court, something stinks.
And I believe that it is the blogger Mundabor who raises the best question -
WHAT IS PELL'S 'SEXUAL ORIENTATION'?
If the man is 100% heterosexual, then this would be an open and shut case. At no time does a proper man with his head intact, ever consider relieving himself with some other guy. Especially not in any spur-of-the-moment circumstance.
Was this ever made part of Pell's defence? That in no way would he ever be attracted to another man? Did his lawyers just neglect to make the case because of political correctness?
If I were accused of sexual abuse of another man, the first thing I would be emphasizing is the fact that such a motive would be impossible for me to even consider. In fact it would be downright disgusting!
I'm not knowledgeable about this info pertaining to Pell, especially when much of this is secretive. But has this argument in Pell's favour been made?
And if it hasn't, then why not?
And if it can't, then... welp... there goes another one boys...
Opus Dei isn’t perfect but the obsession some have in regards to it is simply weird. They have an overwhelmingly clean slate in regard to abuse, and have many traditional practices etc. I mean Cardinal Mahony paid out almost 700 million to settle his abuse issues w his priests. Just for perspective.
I worked for a Catholic boys school in America and got propositioned by the head of the reiligion department during the school,day. Anything is possible unfortunately.
Respectfully, it seems people have taken an ... aggressive interest in the whole case, when they've no right to. It's to the point where I have been blocked and put down merely because I have suggested a more reasoned approach, like Vox and Barona are doing here. Ironically, the most aggressive promoters of Cardinal Pell's supposed innocence are the Canadians, Americans, and the British. The Australians are more level-headed about it, and while individuals may believe in his innocence, they have asked for justice to be done. We need to take a deep breath and take emotion out of this whole business.
Fellow Voxxers, Cardinal Pell could well be guilty. Perhaps not of this particular crime, but others. Only Mundabor has asked if Cardinal Pell is homosexual. There are a lot of unanswered questions in addition to this one. I know it is difficult to comprehend that he is guilty, because we have been conditioned to believe that liberals are guilty no matter what, while conservatives are innocent, simply because we live in a liberal world.
But we have been fooled before by someone's conservatism. Cardinal Spellman is an example.
Cardinal Pell is either innocent or guilty, but the mistake is assuming he is either with absolute certainty. Like it or not, we do not have that quality for either his innocence or his guilt.
Wait for the appeal.
Johnno claims after Mundabor that establishing Cardinal Pell's sexual orientation would be very helpful.
I could not agree less. We have all heard stories of husbands and fathers who allegedly realized that they were homosexual later in life. One older man in Canada, a father of 7, even discovered himself to be a 6 (or 7) year old girl. Ontario's former PM, wife and mother, became a lesbian. She kicked her husband out to the (freshly renovated, mind you) basement, and moved her female sex partner to the bedroom.
The so called sexual orientation is a falsehood. People choose what they do. So called straight men who are in jail and then are freed, are know to change their habits back and forth.
One of the reasons that we have a sodomite mafia in the Church, which celebrates and promotes sodomy among the laity, is that we believed psychologists and psychiatrists more than God. An inclination or an idea or a fashion or trend does not equal a choice to act.
As to Cardinal Pell, none of us here knows what his choices in this respect have been. What we do see is the attack on the Catholic Church everywhere, including Australia, where claims have been made for a long time about many horrific sexual crimes by priests. Fiona Barnett is one of the witnesses. She even talks about ritual murder by Catholic higher-ups and priests alike which she allegedly witnessed.
Out of love for justice and truth, and the Church, I think we must insist on proper justice delivery even in these circumstances. I want all the guilty sex perverts punished severely, and all sodomites who didn't commit any crimes, forced out of the Church. But - for the loves I listed - I equally want all other criminals - protestant pastors, rabbis, school teachers, pediatricians. social workers, child psychologists, foster parents, Hollywood... punished to the full extent of the law. Little is being said about the epidemic of crimes against children in all other environments. It is extremely troubling for many reasons.
Who has seen the very recent interview of Opreh's friend Gail with two victims of Michael Jackson? It was nothing less than thinly veiled paedophilia promotion on MSM. A comment I placed on you-tube, stressing the continuity between sodomy promotion and pedophilia (undeniable common logic of "I was born this way" and "Love is love") got many likes in the first 5 minutes, after which it disappeared never to be seen again. Bill Maher has been promoting pedophiia on his show for years (show produced by Kid Love Productions).
This preference for prosecution of Catholic priests is extremely troubling.
It seems to me that Australia wants to see blood of the Catholic Church.
Michael Ortiz , as a member of Opus Dei ,it is obvious why you are here defending the cult.How is it just a few months ago posted here defending the now convicted perverted child abusing Numerary in Spain who was convicted and sentenced to 11 years ?
Like you he worked at an Opus Dei school in Spain. You people are just as disgusting as the stupid RC/LC who defended and continue to defend their cult.
"On July 23, 2011, I sent Voris (cc Brammer) a short e-mail complimenting them on their exposé of the lack of Knights leadership in the battles for life, marriage and family. I also asked why, in his criticism of Carl A. Anderson, who took over the reign of Supreme Knight Virgil C. Dechant in 2000, did Voris fail to mention that Anderson was a member of Opus Dei. "
http://www.newengelpublishing.com/all-the-men-behind-the-opus-dei-curtain/
Even lawyers here were astonished at the conviction?
How many commentators here have read or heard all the testimonies at Pell's trial?
NONE.
Nevertheless, he has a long history of cover up and transferring pedo clerics. One HUGE strike against him !
No Mr Ortiz ,Opus Dei has a remarkable dirty slate of fighting against the former members who tried to either present their case in court or seek help from the Vatican.
By turning these cases into a state vs private religious institutional practice for which the poor slaves within the Houses are financially and physically abused ,they manage to legally evade scrutiny because the naively pious join in their youth and only realize much later what evil they have gotten themselves into. You sir are employed on the outside by OD.
https://heights.edu/faculty/ortiz/
http://en.rfi.fr/france/20110923-opus-dei-members-face-paris-court-over-slavery-charges
I’m not defending anyone. I’m defending an organization in the Church that has a very good record in regards to the abuse crisis. Randy Engel says many accurate things re the Church, but on Opus Dei she is completely mistaken.
Dorita , what you say is true. I read the actual case against the Dr who administered Propanol on a regular basis to M Jackson to sleep.
Over two dozen cases of sexual child abuse were presented by the FBI by Mr Jackson. Most had been heavily paid off to keep their silence. Like in the Church this practice of pay off for silence has been going on for a long time.
Sadly, jackson's daughter was in the courtroom. She found out she was not related even in part to the singer and was totally unrelated to her older brother. It followed that she tried to commit suicide twice and was sent away to a remote ranch for troubled teens by the Jackson family.
It is the sexual and financial perverts within any organization who want to keep the truth from coming to light.
I think it is the Aussie public and not the government who are fed up and frankly US Catholics and Canadian Catholics should be too.
I’ll pray for you.
Clear Corruption of the legal process by a jury who ignored the facts. The first jurors were honest, the second well chosen by the mob!
It is not "clear corruption of the legal process by a jury who ignored the facts." Making absolute statements like this is silly. For all we know, the second jury was honest in their assessment.
Wait for the appeal, if there is one.
People, take a chill pill.
Australia did itself a disservice with this trial. Clearly people have sketchy confidence in the fairness of the Australian system of justice.
I think the whole d--- church is chock full of homosexual predators. I think the world has gone pretty mad and there are demons running around preying on little boys and young men in particular. Some of these men wear Roman collars or red hats. If he's not guilty there are thousands who are. He's got means so he's likely got better legal representation than you or I would have. Little boys and young men are suffering from homosexual predation and will continue to suffer while thumbs are twiddled inside the "Catholic church", which today resembles much more a mafia or a Social Service organization than it does a church. Frankly they all make me sick at this point. I'm entirely sick of them all and get annoyed with myself for continuing to observe this train wreck. Perhaps I'll give that up for Lent.
Mr Ortiz , you defended the Numerary who, under the guise of Spirtual Direction, abused a boy horribly at an Opus Dei school in Spain during school hours removing him from class for his filthy lusts.
Randy Engel covered that case in spades. She interviewed the family and did her due diligence pouring over all the records.
She then covered the trial ,all of which can be found on the Internet.
Sorry but as an Opus Dei Apologist you are a failure.
Read Carmen del Tapia's excellent biographical coverage as Escriva's secretary for over twenty years. Read Hutchinson's book ,"Their Kingdom Come". Read "Odan", "Opus Dei Watch" and the coverage that ex Legion priest Paul Lennon has given your favorite cult on "ReGain".
Look into all the suspicious deaths involving Opus Dei connected bankers in Europe. How is it Hanssen the worst American spy and traitor ( not to mention pervert) in recent memory belonged to Opus Dei? Opus Dei even had the where withall to remove the "Opus Libros" web site with dozens of accounts posted from S American ,Spanish and other hispanic personages in whose countries Opus Dei flourished.
Cardinal Sodano wined and dined the Opus Dei elite politicians in Chile and nuncio there and placed many of the clerical pederast abusers in authority. Cdl Pio Laghi did the same in Argentina.
http://churchandstate.org.uk/2015/11/dictatorship-in-argentina-the-nuncio-and-the-vatican/
"The Pope later named another Opus Dei member, Angelo Sodano, as Secretary of State of the Vatican. Sodano had been the Vatican’s ambassador in Chile during the Pinochet dictatorship, becoming a close friend and advisor to the dictator. He was responsible for the Pope’s visit to the Pinochet dictatorship in 1987. During this visit, the Pope never called publicly for liberty or democracy in Chile."
https://www.counterpunch.org/2005/04/08/a-profoundly-rightwing-pope/
Interestingly, Sodano was revealed to have taken expensive gifts
(bribes)from Maciel like a mercedes benz ,in order to keep his record of sexual perversions and lies from coming to light.
I revisited Vox’s posts From last summer and my comments. Lying is a sin, and publicly slandering someone is a greater sin. I never defended the numerary in Spain and you know it.
@ Irenaeus
You are starting to show your true colors, Clearly you do not know Cardinal Pell, but I do, however i'm sure that won't effect your poisoned mind but maybe my next statement will. So you are prepared to state that Cardinal Pell, a priest for over 50 years went insane for five minutes, just five minutes out of 50 plus years, sorry make that 2 & half minutes because his other accuser admitted he lied on his death bed. I don't know about you but find that incredible.
...his other accuser admitted he lied on his death bed.
I believe it's even worse than that. If I have my facts right, the other purported "victim" never accused Pell at all, and was only named as a co-victim by the primary accuser after his death. The deceased man did tell his mother that he'd never been abused, but I believe that was a general statement, not in relation to Pell specifically. Someone can correct me if I'm mistaken.
These are the flimsiest possible grounds for putting a man in jail: a single accuser comes forward, many years after the fact, as a result of a highly irregular public solicitation by the police, with a totally uncorroborated story describing a vile and reckless act of sexual abuse by a man who has never demonstrated any such tendencies over decades in the public eye.
Meanwhile, the trads in the comments section here merrily form the customary circular firing squad and blast away. Could we just this one time act like adults and not live up to the stereotype?
You most certainly did Mr Ortiz in defending opus dei's position that the man was innocent.
Kathleen, I totally agree with your suggestion. I KNOW way too much about the sexually disordered who have taken over positions of authority in the Church and at this point it only serves to disgust the soul. Lent is a good point in time to fast from the filth for the body and soul.
Those who refuse to educate themselves on the money cults flourishing in the church and destroying lives, stay stupid and learn like the ex LC and RC's did .
Those who want to argue if and how Pell practiced his "vanilla sex" on little boys as his own attorney called it......debate and sin all you want......
I suggest focusing your meditations and prayers on and to Our Divine Savior.
You know I never did that. I know zip re that school and know not a single person at that school. You’re giving Catholics a bad name by your unhinged accusations.
What will Francis do to Pell -- defrock, laicize, excommunicate? I suspect he will throw the book at Pell so that we all think he's really toughened when it comes to pedophilia (not homosexuality, eh eh) and child abuse. McCarrick will fade, as Pell becomes the new poster boy for pedophilia.
Which makes me ask the really big question: Where is Mr. McCarrick and why hasn't the someone chased him down for an interview.
DisturbedMary
If he was a Traditionalist, I wonder if you would be asking the question. Has it occurred to you how preposterous it is that an Archbishop would spontaneously force a kid to do what he did after a Mass (which alone is preposterous since there are always, ALWAYS, people in the sacristy after Mass--any Catholic, liberal, conservative, or traditional, can attest to it)? This is an unbelievable travesty, and since he didn't get the assumption of innocence until proven guilty by the law (who started a witch hunt on him and even apparently ADVERTISED for "victims" to step forward)before anyone ever made such a complaint, or the courts, who allowed this supposed "evidence" to be carried to trial, surely we can see that it is a case of the worst kind of set-up, calumny, "bearing false witness". I suspect even his lawyer may have been pressured. In the first trial Card. Pell testified on his own behalf, and the verdict was a hung jury--10-2 in his favor. In the second trial, he was apparently advised not to speak, and the prosecution got a unanimous verdict AGAINST the Cardinal. Then his attorney's "plain vanilla" comment (which a high profile, experienced attorney should have known better than to say) seemed to imply he was guilty. It may be unrealistic to think his highly regarded attorney would cooperate with destroying a powerful prelate like Pell, but no more unrealistic than thinking an Archbishop with a reputation like his committed a spontaneous abuse of not one, but TWO boys because he suddenly found an OPPORTUNITY, and without any prior "grooming"? (Except, of course, that the "opportunity" could not have actually occurred as the prosecution presented it, but how many non-Catholics have actually been in a Catholic Church and seen the bustle of activity in the sacristy after Mass. The prosecution showed a picture of a big, empty room to the jury. That's not the case before, during, and after Mass. This is a lie on its face, and if the appeals court does not render a just decision, a lot of people are going to be very upset.
This one case is ridiculous. Unless Pell put all the people in the sacristy into a trance I don't see how he could have done it. That being said, there have been rumors about him for a long time and we have not heard the last of the changing room and pool story.
The evidence against Cardinal Pell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHBAyP2wjic
Handle name...John
Anonymous @ 1:16 am, March 05, 2019
Your link refers to one of the most left wing, bias, anti Catholic pathetic, free to air TV network Australia has. The hatred they have for "all" things Catholic makes Justin Trudeau look as tame as a kitten. The wicked left A.B.C were the ring leaders of this demonic witch-hunt against Cardinal Pell. Although there are a few honest journalist, Andrew Bolt sums the situation up perfectly.
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6007077187001
That's right, shoot the messenger .But in this case the interviewees are the parents and friends of the victims and a gym manager who has zero bias against the Cardinal or even knowledge of who the naked man was standing fully naked in front of children..
Talk to some decent conservative young priests who went over to Australia under the same opinion as you to work under a Prelate with a conservative public image. not quite what they expected to find in private.
@ Anonymous 2:14
The thing about pedophile perverts, their sodomy opus comprises a lifetime of perversity and evil. This tenacious bull of a former rugby player, at age 77, does not fit the profile. There is no history, except the opposite of faggotry.
Another thing I’ve noticed is that *actual* Priest sodomites, perverts and pedophiles are protected. Normally they operate with impunity. If caught they are hidden. If found they are protected and evidence covered up, destroyed, sent away to Rome. Their opportunities to advance and conquest are vast and somehow they just keep on.
Cardinal Pell , former Secretariat for the Economy, second most powerful position in he Catholic Church with knowledge of all their secrets, was not so protected. And he is now in solitary confinement, 23 hours a day for a stupid accusation and impossible hearsay evidence. Mr. McCarrick is not in solitary. He is living next door to a Boy’s school (yippy!). His pedo-sodomy opus is extensive. And he goes on.
Cardinal Pell, just another Priest pedophile pervert? Give me break. If he were that, he would be living richly in Rome right now enjoying the remainder of his days drinking fine wine, large meals and a steady stream of sexual opportunities coming his way. Instead, he is living the life of a Martyr, preparing to meet Almighty God, cut off from even saying Holy Mass. I like his chances when the meets the Just Judge. Mr. McCarrick and all the others who actually are infecting our Church and harming their flock? I shudder on their behalf.
Anonymous @ 2:14 pm, March 05, 2019
One should only shoot down the messenger when the massage is given to them by Satan. Those conservative priest you mention are a fragment of your intimation, how stupid do you think people are! Why don't you give names of these so called imaginative priests.
Cool it with the hysteria.
One question I have for people like Aqua: what will you do if the appeal finds him guilty?
Pell's position was NOT the second most powerful in the Vatican. The most powerful is Sec of State followed by the Papacy.
Note , Borgoglio surrounds himself with sodomites and like minded thinkers and supporters.
No one recanted an accusation on his deathbed as the Pell supporters are spreading in their pie in the sky narrative.
The one abused male spiraled down into heroine use and his other companion victim stood up for himself and the deceased.
Pell actually resided with the infamous Christian Brother abuser Riddsdale and defended him all the way, despite the incontrovertible evidence of what he actually had done.
If Pell wins an appeal on some technicality it sends a clear message to all the Prelates who abuse ... They are untouchables.
God knows the Truth and may He judge them all here and in the hereafter.
@ Iranaeus
In your carefully considered opinion, what is the evidence that clearly establishes Cardinal Pell’s guilt as a sodomite child predator who raped boys in the Cathedral, close to the altar, in the fanny, while still vested as Archbishop for Holy Mass?
Before I take the word of bigoted Catholic haters that a Catholic Cardinal did this exceedingly profane crime against God and boys, I need some evidence. I see no evidence. Perhaps you do. What do you have?
@ anonymous 9:40
Those are not proofs you provide. I saw the video linked above. It was all similarly disgusting innuendo.
“Pie in the sky” is referring to the innocence, of a now Catholic Cardinal, of the charge of buggering boys through his vestments as Archbishop near the Cathedral High Altar moments after Holy Mass.
I would not use “Pie In The Sky”. I favor innocent until *proven* guilty. I have not seen proof. I want to see the 12-0 Jury’s work. What I’ve seen is similar to what you show above: innuendo and primarily *decades old* recovered memory charges. That doesn’t cut it for me.
The charges are the most serious imaginable. If he is guilty, his crime is Judas level. Proof please.
Aqua , the charges brought were not sodomy. The charges were for fondling and fellatio, or as Pell's attorney referred to them as "vanilla sex".
Cdl Pell is not a conservative either. He is on the record denying the existance of Adam and Eve.
Google his talk.
Borgoglio chose him for a reason, just as he chose his other cardinal cabinet. Pell is blackmailable.
@ anonymous 11:56
Sodomy: unnatural sexual relations such as anal, oral, homosexual.
Fondling from behind and oral copulation were the allegations - (while fully vested as Archbishop, moments after Mass, in the Cathedral, in the Sacristy, surrounded by crowds of people coming and going as usual after a Pontifical High Mass, and he uses the occasion to rape a boy who sang in his choir - the charges are outrageously stupid).
"Crowds of people?
Were you there?
Aqua, Read Randy Engel's Rite of Sodomy to understand what is meant by "vanilla sex".
A little more commentary with clarity on Cdl Pell and Opus Dei.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4404498638452030181&postID=8888920402564112527&bpli=1
"So, the enthusiasm with which Pell’s defenders — who include both ideological warriors and reasonable people — protest the cardinal’s innocence is misplaced. It’s one thing to wonder about whether justice was truly done in this case, but another thing altogether to protest the cardinal’s innocence (in arguments usually drawing from the defense’s case, which evidently failed to persuade the jury)."
https://www.catholicsun.org/2019/03/08/why-defending-cardinal-pell-is-a-problem/
Someone is steering this show trial, just not sure who or why...Pell is guilty of cover ups, paying off victums and has been accused of other pedophilia cases not included in this strange trial. He lied on national television for all to see and somehow made it to a top Vatican position which has its own implications. Barnhard’s sources in the Vatican say Pell is a stone cold psychopath. Logically he is not clean no matter what ‘conservative’ values he might be projecting.
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