Tuesday, 26 May 2015

Pope Francis : Did you just call yourself a "heretic?"

I was going to write on the Pope's comments about saying something that some would think is "heretical."

I have changed my mind, I am too angry to be charitable.

Instead, I shall post this.

If it was good enough for this Saint, who are you to receive the Holy Eucharist in your hands?

However, I do note that he looks very tired in the video below and not all that well.

It seems that the dear man on the left above gave more than Holy Communion as a good example in February of 2013.

Perhaps it is time for another to follow in his steps.


Sorry, I tried to be charitable.

Brothers and sisters, may the peace of Christ be with you.
Forgive me if I speak in Spanish, but my English isn’t good enough for me to express myself properly.  I speak in Spanish but, above all, I speak in the language of the heart.
I have the invitation you sent me for this celebration of Christian Unity, this day of reconciliation. And I wish to join you from here. “Father, may we be one so that the world may believe you sent me”. This is the slogan, the theme of the meeting: Christ’s prayer to the Father for the grace of unity.
Today, Saturday May 23rd, from 9in the morning until 5 in the afternoon, I will be with you spiritually and with all my heart. We will search together, we will pray together, for the grace of unity. The unity that is budding among us is that unity which begins under the seal of the one Baptism we have all received. It is the unity we are seeking along a common path. It is the spiritual unity of prayer for one another. It is the unity of our common labour on behalf of our brothers and sisters, and all those who believe in the sovereignty of Christ.
Dear brothers and sisters, division is a wound in the body of the Church of Christ. And we do not want this wound to remain open. Division is the work of the Father of Lies, the Father of Discord, who does everything possible to keep us divided.
Together today, I here in Rome and you over there, we will ask our Father to send the Spirit of Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and to give us the grace to be one, “so that the world may believe”. I feel like saying something that may sound controversial, or even heretical, perhaps. But there is someone who “knows” that, despite our differences, we are one. It is he who is persecuting us. It is he who is persecuting Christians today, he who is anointing us with (the blood of) martyrdom. He knows that Christians are disciples of Christ: that they are one, that they are brothers! He doesn’t care if they are Evangelicals, or Orthodox, Lutherans, Catholics or Apostolic…he doesn’t care! They are Christians. And that blood (of martyrdom) unites. Today, dear brothers and sisters, we are living an “ecumenism of blood”. This must encourage us to do what we are doing today: to pray, to dialogue together, to shorten the distance between us, to strengthen our bonds of brotherhood.
I am convinced it won’t be theologians who bring about unity among us. Theologians help us, the science of the theologians will assist us, but if we hope that theologians will agree with one another, we will reach unity the day after Judgement Day. The Holy Spirit brings about unity. Theologians are helpful, but most helpful is the goodwill of us all who are on this journey with our hearts open to the Holy Spirit!
In all humility, I join you as just another participant on this day of prayer, friendship, closeness and  reflection. In the certainty that we have one Lord: Jesus is the Lord. In the certainty that this Lord is alive: Jesus is alive, the Lord lives in each one of us. In the certainty that He has sent the Spirit He promised us so that this “harmony” among all His disciples might be realised.
Dear brothers and sisters, I greet you warmly, with an embrace. I pray for you. I pray with you.
And I ask you, please, to pray for me. Because I need your prayers in order to be faithful to what the Lord wants from my Ministry.
God bless you. May God bless us all.     


Ronald Sevenster said...

If the Pope is really a heretic, his saying that he is one cannot be trusted to be the truth, for how can a heretic be trusted to say the truth? And thus he would not be a heretic after all. But if he isn't a heretic, then what he says must be taken as trustworthy and thus his saying that he is a heretic must be taken serious. We seem to be involved here in a new version of the liar's paradox, which essentially means that the utterance of the Pope isn't really a proposition capable of truth values. For that reason we can perhaps conclude that the Pope didn't say anything intelligible at all when he said what he said, and this may be actually a good thing in this case.

Unknown said...

I don't see the big deal here. The Pope is saying that to ISIS and such, all Christians are the same. Just a big group of people to kill, (including Jews as the next story suggests). Then he says that we are being killed together and that is something that unites us. He said that it can sound controversial or heretical to say that we are already one. And it is a good thing that he's aware that it is not the same thing to be in the Church than outside of it. But he said that, to make the point that for the enemies that is irrelevant. They just care that you follow Christ, and nothing at all about specific believes. He never said we are the same. He prays to the Holy Spirit that we might become one eventually... Anyway, did I miss something? I don't think this one will make it around the Internet, I don't see something controversial here. Please tell me what I missed. I mean it. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Carla Nieto, you could look at Louie Verrechio's treatment of this latest.

Unknown said...

I just found the Zenit story that completely messed things up. Did you read this from there? I can't believe how bad they made themselves look. I wonder if miss Deborah Castellano took her info from the transcript or if she translated herself. Whatever happened it's unbelievable. Please think about making a fair correction. Thanks.

Vox Cantoris said...

Carla, I don't know what Zenit story you refer to as I did not read it. What is posted above are the very words of Pope Francis and the video with the Vatican's own translation. You can read yourself what he says.

Now, is he a heretic?

That is for others and history to judge.

He is however, Jesuitical and that is not necessarily a good thing and it is certainly not Ignatian!

When have you ever heard a Pope in the past muse publicly about whether or not what he is going to say might be interpreted as "heretical?"

Now as to what he said, "There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church" and that includes schismatics and those who have torn the fabric of the Bride of Christ. Can God act outside of His Sacraments? Yes. Can people of goodwill outside the Church be saved? God will save whom He wills but the point is, we cannot know it just as we cannot say who is in Hell, though we certainly know that it is not empty.

If these martyrs of whom he speaks are Saints and Martyrs for the Faith, then declare it so, but he will not because he knows he cannot.

So instead, he plays Jesuitical games about being perceived as "heretical."

Read what he said.

John said...

Dear Vox, I really appreciate all that you do. Just wanted to pass along another perspective from today's NCR. My original interpretation was the same as yours. After reading Mr. Akin's article, I want back and "listened" to Pope Francis' talk (via closed caption on the video posted on John 17 web site). I have to give Mr. Akin credit, I think he's right (at least about who the pope was referring to in this context).


Please keep up the good work.

God bless.

Anonymous said...

Pope Francis feels he needs to make some kinda wronged against Protestant charismatics, now right. He believes that the Catholic Church in Italy were complicit with the Italian government in unjustly persecuting them during the 50's. This is what I have gathered from reading the website of this John 17 movement.
I think he has gone overboard with his "ecumenical activities" and such causing a lot of confusion. This could be partly why he attacks and belittles Traditional Catholics, he thinks by doing that he is making some kinda of amends? He blames Traditional Catholicism for being predijuce against Protestants. Seems he is completely lacking in the area Apologetics and is a very stubborn old man. I could be wrong and Pope Francis has completely lost the Catholic Faith? He doesn't speak out against the vote in Ireland to legalize homosexual marriage but has time to do this video conference and speak out against spending too much money on pets and cosmetics. His appointments are scandalous and his enviro whacko conference was very troubling! I believe though this is being used by Satan to cause a distraction from the diabolical plans of Cardinal Marx and company with the Synod. Also what is strange or maybe just planned that way, is that Cardinal Marx's secret meeting in Rome was happening while Pope Francis had his meeting to wrap up some working documents for the Synod in October. Something is definitely wrong going on!!

Trad girl+++ said...

The false ecumenism that is being fostered is the cause of the division Pope Francis speaks of. Why did the Holy Martyrs die? Was this an error on their part? To die for the One True Faith of Christ and the Early Church Fathers. Oooops you died for nothing? We are ALL saved cuz we say so and we are 'nice'. So they fall into hell like snowflakes (Fatima). Thanks new Church Fathers. Remember the streets of hell are paved with the skulls of Bishops. Super highways on the way! One day all will be clear.

Trad girl+++ said...

False ecuminism is the direct cause of the division that this Pope fears so much. So much so that he is forgetting the blood of the Martyrs that died defending the Faith of the One True Church. Oooops sorry you died for nothing Holy Ones as it appears ALL to to heaven. Even schismatic heretics. Really?