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Monday, 27 June 2016

Bergoglio praised Luther - who will denounce him?


Lest you think that this Bergoglio only betrayed the faithful Catholics in Courage and those such as Joseph Sciambra, how about the fact that he praised Martin Luther!

In the rest of that disgusting, rambling, incoherent, offensive and pathetic bile on the interview back from Armenia there was even this praise of that filthy heretic who caused the loss of tens of millions of souls into Hell. 

Now, this Bergoglio praised him, along with sodomites, as he warms up for his trip to Sweden. What more idiocy can this man say on his next plane trip home from somewhere.

Where are the cardinals and bishops who will find the courage to call this man a danger to the faith and a heretic?

Kleinjung: Too much beer … Holy Father, I wanted to ask you a question. Today you spoke of the gifts of the shared Churches, of the gifts shared by the Churches together. Seeing that you will go in I believe four months to Lund for the commemoration of the 500th anniversary of the reformation, I think perhaps this is also the right moment for us not only to remember the wounds on both sides but also to recognize the gifts of the reformation. Perhaps also – this is a heretical question – perhaps to annul or withdraw the excommunication of Martin Luther or of some sort of rehabilitation. Thank you.


Pope Francis: I think that the intentions of Martin Luther were not mistaken. He was a reformer. Perhaps some methods were not correct. But in that time, if we read the story of the Pastor, a German Lutheran who then converted when he saw reality – he became Catholic – in that time, the Church was not exactly a model to imitate. There was corruption in the Church, there was worldliness, attachment to money, to power...and this he protested. Then he was intelligent and took some steps forward justifying, and because he did this. And today Lutherans and Catholics, Protestants, all of us agree on the doctrine of justification. On this point, which is very important, he did not err. He made a medicine for the Church, but then this medicine consolidated into a state of things, into a state of a discipline, into a way of believing, into a way of doing, into a liturgical way and he wasn’t alone; there was Zwingli, there was Calvin, each one of them different, and behind them were who? Principals! We must put ourselves in the story of that time. It’s a story that’s not easy to understand, not easy. Then things went forward, and today the dialogue is very good. That document of justification I think is one of the richest ecumenical documents in the world, one in most agreement. But there are divisions, and these also depend on the Churches. In Buenos Aires there were two Lutheran churches, and one thought in one way and the other...even in the same Lutheran church there was no unity; but they respected each other, they loved each other, and the difference is perhaps what hurt all of us so badly and today we seek to take up the path of encountering each other after 500 years. I think that we have to pray together, pray. Prayer is important for this. Second, to work together for the poor, for the persecuted, for many people, for refugees, for the many who suffer; to work together and pray together and the theologians who study together try...but this is a long path, very long. One time jokingly I said: I know when full unity will happen. - “when?” - “the day after the Son of Man comes,” because we don’t know...the Holy Spirit will give the grace, but in the meantime, praying, loving each other and working together. Above all for the poor, for the people who suffer and for peace and many things...against the exploitation of people and many things in which they are jointly working together.


11 comments:

Mark Thomas said...

Vox said..."Lest you think that this Bergoglio only betrayed the faithful Catholics in Courage and those such as Joseph Sciambra, how about the fact that he praised Martin Luther!"

Thank you, Vox. Finally! That is what I've waited for since yesterday!

Pope Francis' comments yesterday about homosexuals were sound. During his response to the question about homosexuals, Pope Francis offered three references to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Also, as he had done in 2013 A.D., Pope Francis yesterday distinguished between the individual homosexual of good will who sought the Lord versus the Homosexual Lobby, which Pope Francis again condemned. Pope Francis yesterday condemned the politicization of homosexuality as well as "certain manifestations" of homosexuality, which he deemed as "offensive" to certain folks.

I figured that the majority of Traditional Catholics would adhere to the secular news media in having focused exclusively upon Pope Francis' response to the question about homosexuals.

However, I believed that of far greater importance than the above concerned Pope Francis' comments about Martin Luther. Those comments should have been the major focus of Traditionalists.

The determination among recent Popes that stretches to at least Pope Blessed Paul VI, or certainly to Pope Saint John Paul II, to "rehabilitate" Martin Luther should have been the major focus today among Traditional bloggers.

Pope Francis shares with Popes Benedict XVI and Saint John Paul II the desire, for the advancement of ecumenism, to portray Martin Luther as a man of great "faith" who was misunderstood, if not persecuted, by big, bad Churchmen.

Again, Pope Francis' comments about Martin Luther, in line with Rome's decades-old determination to "purify" Martin Luther for ecumenical purposes, are far more disconcerting than anything that the Pope said yesterday about homosexuals.

Thank you, Vox, for having launched the important discussion about Pope Francis' comments about Martin Luther.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Docherty said...

A Lutheran AND Catholic. A Lutheran cannot be Pope. https://nonvenipacem.com/2016/06/27/a-lutheran-cannot-be-pope/

Mark Thomas said...

It is unbelievable to me that Traditionalists march in lockstep with the secular news media when it comes to twisting and/or hyping certain remarks offered by Pope Francis. That is true in particular when it regards the Pope's responses to questions about homosexuality. Traditionalists as well as secular news media reporters twist the Pope's responses into sensationalistic comments.

The transcript of yesterday's Papal press conference reveals that Pope Francis' remarks about homosexuals were ho-hum...not remotely new and earth-shattering. On top of that, Pope Francis made it clear that his comments about homosexuals fit two categories: Homosexuals of good will who seek the Lord versus those who comprise the Homosexual Lobby, which he has condemned.

Vox has touched now upon Pope Francis' most important remarks yesterday...those that pertained to Martin Luther.

However, Pope Francis also offered important comments about women deacons. He shattered recent claims advanced by Traditionalists as well as the secular news media. That is, the narrative that Pope Francis had opened the door to female deacons...female deacons were, supposedly, a done deal...was shattered yesterday by His Holiness.

The news media don't wish to publicize that fact. That also applies to Traditionalists whose narrative about female deacons having been a "done deal" was destroyed yesterday.

By far, that leaves Pope Francis' comments about Martin Luther as the most important and "difficult" that he offered yesterday. Those comments should have been the great center of focus yesterday and today on Traditionalist blogs.

Vox, at least, has launched the important discussion about Martin Luther. Vox, thank you for that.

Pax.

Mark Thomas



Greg J Ben said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-the-christian-life-proclaims-the-road-to-reco When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us. "

Mark Thomas said...

Vox said..."Who will denounce His Holiness Pope Francis for having spoken highly of Martin Luther?"

Do not count upon Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI to do so.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2011/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20110923_evangelical-church-erfurt.html

Pope Benedict XVI, September 23, 2011 A.D:

"Luther’s thinking, his whole spirituality, was thoroughly Christocentric."

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Who will denounce His Holiness Pope Francis for having spoken highly of Martin Luther?

Papal praise of Martin Luther existed prior to Pope Francis' Pontificate.

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/939/the_pope_martin_luther_and_our_time.aspx

The Pope, Martin Luther, and Our Time

September 25, 2011 A.D., by Mark Brumley, The Catholic World Report

“Martin Luther” is not a popular figure in most Catholic circles. But now here comes Pope Benedict XVI, a fellow German, visiting his homeland and speaking to German Evangelical Christians, i.e. Lutherans, as we call them here.

"The Holy Father seems comfortable talking about Luther with Lutherans, even talking with obvious regard and sympathy for Luther. Shocking? Not to those who have followed the nuances of Catholic teaching on non-Catholic Christians as it has developed, especially as expressed in the teaching of the Second Vatican Council and in papal teaching since then.

"Pope Benedict shows how a Catholic can have a certain sympathetic reading of Luther, notwithstanding the same Catholic’s rejection of Luther’s repudiation of the Catholic Church.

"In this way, a Catholic can see what is most important when it comes to assessing Luther—not denying the problems with him but also not overlooking what Luther got right or demonizing him.

"In his address Benedict makes a number of key points regarding Luther. First, there is Luther’s “burning question”, as Benedict puts it: “what is God’s position towards me, where do I stand before God?” This remains the central question of life today, even though many people don’t realize it.

"Second, there is Luther’s Christ-centered spirituality. Benedict clearly thinks on both of these points Luther is right and that calling attention to this fact is important for all Christians today.

"When it comes to ecumenism, the most important point for Benedict is that we keep in view our common ground as Christians: “It was the error of the Reformation period that for the most part we could only see what divided us and we failed to grasp existentially what we have in common in terms of the great deposit of sacred Scripture and the early Christian creeds. For me, the great ecumenical step forward of recent decades is that we have become aware of all this common ground, that we acknowledge it as we pray and sing together, as we make our joint commitment to the Christian ethos in our dealings with the world, as we bear common witness to the God of Jesus Christ in this world as our inalienable, shared foundation.”

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Barnum said...

I am convinced Mark Thomas works for the Vatican Press Office, or whatever it calls itself these days.

Anonymous said...

Martin Luther led the mother of all heresies.

Absolutely scandalous for The Vicar of Christ on Earth to say anything about that reprobate other than condemnation.

Will he praise General Benedict Arnold and Edward Snowden as reformers as well?

Michael Dowd said...

Re Ecumenical Mark. Ecumenicism is a bad thing. The fact that Popes since Vatican II support it is even worse. The fact that Pope Francis is trying to rehab Luther is very bad thing, confusing to Catholics, and probably borderline heretical.

Anonymous said...

Here is a psychological profile of Luther with deeper insight into the man than the strictly theological. My instinct tells me that there is much more to Francis' psychology than we will every know.
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=652

Luther's intellect sounds to me so much like Papa Francisco, that it made me smile.

"We should remark by way of a nota bene that it is quite plain that Luther had not a comprehensive and synthetic intellect. His talents, not at all mean, were rather in the sentimental and literary order than in the constructive and logical. His doctrines form no consistent body and they were preached without sufficient regard for their mutual compatibility, so that, as has often been noted, he abounds in self-contradictions. His warm imagination, his exaggerated rhetoric and his facile tongue run away with his logic and at times even with his sincerity."