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Tuesday, 10 May 2016

Laity call on Pope to retract Amoris Laetitia!

Other than Athanasius Schneider, for the most part, the Cardinal and Bishops of the Holy Catholic Church may be cowards, but the laity are not!

There are doctrinal errors and ambiguities in Amoris Laetitia. Jorge Bergoglio, Bishop of Rome, promulgated an exportation that is a scandalous assault on the Truth and Catholic doctrine. 


Every Catholic has a right to demand that the Bishop of Rome retract this document or issue immediate corrections to the various matters even far beyond the Chapter 8 and its heretical footnote. 

Some will say, "oh, there is much beautiful in this document." We hear this from celebrity almost daily. It is so affirming of "Life," because he wrote against abortion.

The day my friends when we praise a Pope for speaking against abortion is a pretty sad day because we've set the bar pretty low on what it means to be a Catholic, what it means to be a Pope.

There is more than one drop of poison in this wretched document. Some are highlighted below, in the above link and by Bishop Schneider.

None of us must rest until the Pope yields. Yes, we call upon the Pope to yield. Yield to the true faith and retract this heresy!

It doesn't matter what he said about gender ideology, large families, abortion, or on a plane about marriage, what matter is the last thing he did. That last thing, is his current thought and it is wrong!

The day of death will come for all of us and it will come for Jorge Bergoglio. As with all, he will stand along before Our Lord Jesus Christ to be judged. Unless he is unaware of what he is doing, if he is knowingly creating this confusion and perception that sacrilegious Communions can be tolerated, that immorality can be excused in false mercy, that sex-education is the right of the State over the parents and more, he will be held accountable. He will not get away with this; nor with Kasper, Forte and the rest of them. Neither will the local parish priest who sits by in silence while the sheep are devoured by the wolves. 

All will be brought into the Light! 

Pope Bergoglio! For the sake of your soul, retract this error!

Voice of the Family calls on Pope Francis to withdraw Amoris Laetitia

ROME, May 9, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) -- Over 100 pro-life and pro-family leaders from all over the world leapt to their feet in applause at a meeting in Rome on Saturday after hearing a call for Pope Francis to withdraw his controversial exhortation Amoris Laetitia.
John Smeaton, co-founder of Voice of the Family and the CEO of the UK Society for the Protection of Unborn Children, issued the request to the Pope in his keynote address at the annual Rome Life Forum.
Smeaton spoke following Bishop Athanasius Schneider, who in his speech decried growing confusion in the Church, and who has previously expressed grave concerns about the exhortation.
Smeaton highlighted several grave concerns with the exhortation, including:
  • the section about sex education, which speaks at length about sex education in schools, without reference to the rights of parents;
  • references to public adultery which fail to point out the intrinsic evil of adultery;
  • the suggestion that adulterous sexual acts may be justifiable; and,
  • the false message that marriage is not indissoluble.
The failure to speak clearly on adultery "shows a lack of mercy" said Smeaton, "because it denies Catholics the truth about right and wrong."
"It denies Catholics the knowledge they need to exercise true freedom, freedom from sin. It also shows a lack of mercy because it sends children the false message that marriage is not indissoluble. Arguably, Your Holiness, the most effective way of destroying children is to destroy marriage as an indissoluble lifetime union of a man and a woman."

Read the rest at:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/voice-of-the-family-calls-on-pope-francis-to-withdraw-amoris-laetitia

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

God Bless the Voice of the family members, they are speaking on behalf of thousands of Catholics that have had more than enough of C Jorge's distortion of the truth. He will not withdraw Amoris Laetitia which is sheer mockery of the commandments. This has been his agenda all along, to bring down the most Holy Catholic Church. He will *NOT* win, he has already lost, along with those who have constantly made excuses after excuses trying to defend his modernistic agenda. The moment good Catholic's who defend Christ and his teaching speak out in defense for the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, his fairy men warn him about the uproar and low and behold he becomes what he calls "rigid" to throw off the snitch cent of modernism . The spirit of this world calls him humble, but the spirit of this world will not be his judge, God will, and woe to those who corrupt little children and distort the truth.

Mark Thomas said...

Vox said, "Other than Athanasius Schneider, for the most part, the Cardinal and Bishops of the Holy Catholic Church may be cowards, but the laity are not!"

Vox, did Bishop Athanasius Schneider offer an address at the Rome Life Forum that contradicted the 6,000-word commentary that he offered recently on Amoris Laetitia? Does anybody have a transcription of his address at the Rome Life Forum?

I ask that as in his 6,000-word reflection that he offered last month, Bishop Schneider presented Amoris Laetitia as a document "which contains a plethora of spiritual and pastoral riches with regard to life within marriage and the Christian family in our times...".

Bishop Schneider supported all bishops whom he noted had declared that Amoris Laetitia may only be understood correctly "in the light of the perennial magisterium of the Church and that AL does not permit access to communion for divorced and remarried couples, not even in exceptional cases. This statement is fundamentally correct and desirable."

Therefore, according to Bishop Athanasius Schneider, the only "correct" way to interpret Amoris Laetitia is in the manner that one bishop after another has interpreted Amoris Laetitia. That is, Amoris Laetitia may not be understood as having in any way overthrown (which is impossible to begin with) the Church's teachings on family and marriage.

Therefore, the good news is that the overwhelming majority of bishops have embraced and, in Bishop Schneider's words, interpreted Amoris Laetitia "correctly". From there, the overwhelming majority of bishops will implement a beautiful and uplifting Exhortation that, as Bishop Athanasius Schneider has insisted, "contains a plethora of spiritual and pastoral riches with regard to life within marriage and the Christian family in our times...".

To all my brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, we must remain serene as Pope Francis has, again, in Bishop Schneider's words, gifted us with a document that "contains a plethora of spiritual and pastoral riches with regard to life within marriage and the Christian family in our times".

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Vox Cantoris said...

Mark,

The link at Bishop Schneider's name is this:

http://voiceofthefamily.com/bishop-athanasius-schneider-the-crisis-of-the-faith-in-the-church-today/

This is where you will find his speech at the conference.

The Pope created this mess. We cannot deny it any longer. It matters not what he said on a plane or a month ago or a year ago; what matters is what he wrote and distributed.

No more excuses. If someone else wrote it, it was HIS responsibility to read it!

Mark Thomas said...

Vox said, "Other than Athanasius Schneider, for the most part, the Cardinal and Bishops of the Holy Catholic Church may be cowards, but the laity are not!"

Vox, Bishop Schneider is a coward, and much worse than that as he is on the road to apostasy, according to The Remnant. I must declare that I reject The Remnant's vicious attack against Bishop Schneider. However, The Remnant most certainly speaks for a certain amount of Traditionalists.

That is why I asked in earlier comments here whether Bishop Schneider changed his tune at the Rome Life Forum in regard to his refusal to label His Holiness Pope Francis and Amoris Laetitia "unorthodox".

As I had noted, The Remnant attacked and denounced Bishop Schneider as a "foolish bishop" who is "playing us for fools" in regard to Amoris Laetitia. Beyond that, The Remnant has insisted that Bishop Schneider is a "conservative" bishop who has "been so conditioned to use the “ambiguity” and “interpretation” defenses for so long in the post-concilliar Church that these responses are now automatic regardless of whether they apply to patently heretical documents from the pope."

"Thus, the only men who seem to pass for defenders of Tradition in the hierarchy these days are touting a non-credible line of defense. In fact, it is not a defense at all. It is instead a denial of reality. In their attempt to side-step disciplinary action or condemnation from Francis they must believe that they can “play dumb” by acting as if it is not clear what the document authorizes, and then stating that surely it cannot mean that doctrine has changed, so it must not have. This act is fooling nobody (except the wilfully blind Neo-Caths)."

Those are grave charges that The Remnant has leveled against Bishop Schneider. But it gets worse than that. Unless Bishop Athanasius Schneider changes his tune about His Holiness Pope Francis and joins the "resistance", then Bishop Schneider will fall into apostasy.

The Remnant warned that Bishop Schneider (as well as Cardinal Burke and all bishops) must declare Pope Francis and Amoris Laetitia as "anti-Christian" or else they will apostasize from the Faith.

The Remnant declared that "for Bishop Schneider, Cardinal Burke, and all of our bishops...the time is growing near where there will no longer be any choice but resistance or apostasy. Again, that is a very, very grave warning from The Remnant to Bishop Schneider (and all bishops).

The Remnant has portrayed Bishop Schneider as far worse than a "coward". That said, does anybody accept the scathing denunciations that The Remnant has leveled against Bishop Schneider (as well as Cardinal Burke and additional "conservative" bishops) in the article linked below? Is Bishop Schneider actually courting apostasy? I don't accept any of that from The Remnant.

However, at the Rome Life Forum, did Bishop Schneider take up The Remnant's call to denounce Pope Francis and Amoris Laetitia as heretical?

https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/2484-amoris-laetitia-foolish-bishops-and-bishops-playing-us-for-fools

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Vox, thank you for the link and information. I just read Bishop Schneider's fine address at the Rome Life Forum. My question has been answered. He neither denounced His Holiness Pope Francis nor Amoris Laetitia (not that you had said that he had done so.)

I had simply wondered whether Bishop Schneider had joined the "resistance" against Pope Francis that has built among various Traditionalists and called for recently by The Remnant and addtional Traditional Catholic publications and bloggers.

Vox, I am in 100 percent agreement with you and all Traditionalists in that Pope Francis must address the controversy that has surrounded Amoris Laetitia.

Vox, I know that you disagree with the following: In fairness to Pope Francis, he has in his way addressed publicly the issue of whether (unrepentant) divorced and "remarried" Catholics may receive Holy Communion. He did so on February 17, 2016 A.D. as well when he referred us to Cardinal Schonborn's presentation of Amoris Laetitia. Again, in his way, Pope Francis addressed the controversy and made it clear that he's tired of the issue in question.

Vox, that said, I am on your side in that Pope Francis must revisit the controversy in question. Even though he's made it clear that he's tired of the question and had given his answer to the question at hand, Pope Francis must attend publicly to the controversy.

Vox, I agree 100 percent with you in that regard. I just fear where things are headed in various Traditionalist circles. I am concerned greatly when, for example, The Remnant attacks such men as Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider...when it's suggested that such holy men must side with certain Traditionalists or face apostasy.

For certain Traditionalists, it's either their way or the highway for Bishop Schneider, Cardinal Burke, and each Catholic who doesn't march to their (certain Traditionalists) tune. That is not the way that the Church has been formed by God.

Vox, that is what I fear. I just hope that we remain united to Pope Francis as we work to resolve the controversy at hand in serene fashion as brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Vox Cantoris said...

Mark, what he said in February is irrelevant. It is what he has done since!

He needs to fix this.

Mark Thomas said...

Vox, you are a key man in the Church. You are a key man among Traditionalists. You are a key man within the Catholic blogosphere. Please let us employ the means of social communications to rally around the Vicar of Christ.

I realize that we have the definite right and duty to address our concerns to our Pope and Churchmen. That said, some serious disagreement (it's much greater than that) with Pope Francis may soon reach the boiling point within certain Traditional Catholic circles. Please let's not reach the point of no return in regard to Pope Francis. Please.

Let us develop greater patience in regard to Pope Francis and, in turn, Amoris Laetitia. Let us try to work things out in peace. We need to be at peace with Pope Francis and each other.

Vox, thank you as always for having permitted me to express my opinions here. Thank you.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

marcianusaristides said...


It seems that Our Lady is also very dissatisfied, as She has caused He statue to weep since the 2014 Synod ended...

https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2016/05/10/the-bvm-has-been-weeping-profusely-since-the-2014-synod-deception-began/

Ana Milan said...

Mark Thomas:

Please say where I can read this attack which you say was made by The Remnant on Bishop Schneider, as I cannot see it online.

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Fr Kramer seems to be the only priest who openly condemns Bergoglio.

See Link below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X51Gia2Bio (Fr Kramer is on 12mins in)

Keep up the good work

Jacinta

Mark Thomas said...

Ann Milan, didn't the link that I had provided to The Remnant article in question work for you? The link worked for me. Did you not read the pertinent quotes that I provided from The Remnant article in question? Oh, well, I'll try again.

https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/2484-amoris-laetitia-foolish-bishops-and-bishops-playing-us-for-fools

"Amoris Laetitia: Foolish Bishops and Bishops Playing Us For Fools"

There you may read the denunciations in question that were rendered against Bishop Schneider. The Remnant identified Bishop Schneider as a "conservative" bishop who is "playing us for fools".

The article also insisted that Archbisop Chaput is among conservative bishops who live "in alternate reality, along with our friends Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider."

"In this new conservative escapist reality, Francis didn’t just allow for sacrilegious Communion, upend Catholic teaching on mortal sin, introduce situational ethics into an official Church document, and destroy the underpinnings of three sacraments (marriage, penance, Eucharist). No. To them, Francis’ explicit contradiction of Church doctrine and the moral law is simply imagined to be “ambiguous” or a “misread.”

"Thus, the only men who seem to pass for defenders of Tradition in the hierarchy these days are touting a non-credible line of defense. In fact, it is not a defense at all. It is instead a denial of reality.

"In their attempt to side-step disciplinary action or condemnation from Francis they must believe that they can “play dumb” by acting as if it is not clear what the document authorizes, and then stating that surely it cannot mean that doctrine has changed, so it must not have.

"This act is fooling nobody (except the wilfully blind Neo-Caths)."

Continued from The Remnant article...

"...the editors of the National Catholic Register pen the following delusional statement:"

Following that prayer, The Remnant declared that the "prayer should rather read, “Thus we pray that the anti-Christian vision of marriage that infects this document will spark a revolution against it that begins with the conversion to the Catholic Faith of all time.”

"I pray this prayer for Bishop Schneider, Cardinal Burke, and all of our bishops. For the time is growing near where there will no longer be any choice but resistance or apostasy."

1. Bishop Schneider must join the "resistance" or he will enter into apostasy.

2. Bishop Schneider is among those bishops who "play us for fools".

3. Bishop Schneider lives "in an alternative reality".

4. Bishop Schneider is part of the "conservative escapist reality".

5. Bishop Schneider is among those bishops who "play dumb" in regard to Pope Francis.

It is all right there, undeniably so, in The Remnant's article in question. I simply quoted The Remnant in regard to their denunciation (which I reject) of Bishop Schneider.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Anonymous said...

May I suggest that Mark Thomas write his own blog and quit using others for his soapbox?
I don't read this blog or others to see his often long winded comments.

Ana Milan said...

Mark Thomas.
Thanks, I have it now, but that was nearly a fortnight ago. I thought it was something new, since the SSPX spoke and the Voice of the Family and Bishop Schneider.

This whole demonic situation is getting to people in different ways. Most Trads want AL abolished and call for a Council to do so. There may indeed be great goings on behind the scenes but the fact that nothing is emerging to ensure that AL is not put into practice is the main irritant. We have to accept the recent remarks by Arbishop Bruno Forte that PF wanted AL written in a deceptive way in order to make the changes he wants and doesn't care if they go against the ten commandments or tradition. No other pope ever used his influence to go against what Christ has already made fast and it is not acceptable that this pope is allowed to do so.

I thank God for Bishop Schneider as he is the only one willing (so far) to at least ask for clarification of the points he raised. I doubt he will get any but he should not be the subject of such harsh treatment. It is, after all, up to the Cardinals that elected PF to the Papacy that should now call a Council in order to rescind AL and, hopefully, to end this Papacy which could well be called for on health grounds.

GraceofGod said...

God Bless this good Shepherd....

Dear Faithful Catholics:

I address you as such because my assumption is that if you are a regular visitor to this blog site then you are a very well informed and faithful Catholic. I am grateful to Louie Verrecchio for his enlightening and inspiring (and often entertaining) material in defense of the true Catholic Faith and for this opportunity to reach a much larger congregation of faithful Catholics than is possible in my own parish church setting.

It is not my intent here to undertake a critical examination of the recent papal Exhortation Amoris Laetitia or to comment specifically upon any of the many other heterodox words and actions of the current Bishop of Rome, as Francis himself prefers to be called. Louie has done a yeoman’s job keeping us informed and educated throughout this horrific pontificate. Clearly his blog site is one of the good fruits of the internet.

Divine Providence has determined that each one of us should now be living in this unprecedented period in the history of the Church Militant. You have likely heard the English expression, “May you live in interesting times” which is said to be derived from an ancient Chinese curse. Perhaps; though a better known oriental curse is “Better to be a dog in a peaceful time, than to be a human in a chaotic period.”

We Christians need not think of the present circumstances as a curse but rather a blessing and an occasion for personal sanctification and whatever else God intends for us and the Church. For as Saint Paul said to the early Christians who were suffering persecution at the hands of corrupt religious leaders and the pagan world powers, “It is through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God.” Amen to that!

What are particularly distressing and unsettling to those of us who adhere steadfastly to the true Catholic Faith are the source of the heterodoxy and the silence of the shepherds. Make no mistake about it we have a rogue pope who is deceptively misleading the Church. Some liken the silence of the hierarchy in the face of this to the Emperor with No Clothes. But it’s even worse than that. Francis is not naked (though the image fits, as a biblical symbol of religious infidelity); rather, he is a wolf disguised as a shepherd.

My short and simple message to you is this: remain steadfast in the Rule of Faith. By that I mean remain steadfast in what God has divinely revealed in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Do not be misled by the novelties of the past fifty years and do not be deceived by the words and deeds of modernists, to include Francis. Apply the Catholic Smell Test: if something does not seem to be consistent or compatible with what the Catholic Church has always believed, taught and practiced, then it is probably not Catholic.

It is disheartening, to say the least, that there are not more voices of prelates and pastors decrying the heterodoxy of the present times and the religious outrages of this particular pope. But remember that you are not alone and that in every period and circumstance in which true religion has been persecuted, whether from within or without, the divine Hand of Providence always preserved a remnant faithful few.

Each of us has a role to play in this time of ecclesiastical and cosmic chaos and confusion. For pastors it is to protect the flock entrusted to our care and for parents it is to protect your children from error. For all of us it means witnessing to the truth in whatever manner and circumstances Providence provides us. Many of us are convinced that we are witnessing and engaging in an apocalyptic drama that is sure to be world-altering if not world-ending. Semper fidem tene – always keep the Faith and keep connected to this blog!

– Fr. Demetrius is a diocesan priest, Scripture scholar, and pastor in the United States

https://akacatholic.com/words-of-wisdom-and-encouragement-from-a-father/

Anonymous said...

He should retract his entire Papacy and every act, even any good ones, that he has done in any official capacity.

The man lacks the integrity to even consider those of us his behavior scandalizes, as he systematically undermines our faith. I guess Jesus meant when he said to Peter, "Feed my Sheep", in Francis' Lexicon, "Poison the Faith of those I love!"


Karl


Eirene said...

I heartily endorse the comment by Anonymous at 2.41 that Mark Thomas cease and desist using this blog as his own personal microphone. His continued endless diatribes have driven many away from this excellent blog. Or limit hom to 2 paragraphs per subject! He is driving many of us insane. Thank you Vox.

Anonymous said...

Vox,

This just in from the Remnant:

http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2512-an-open-letter-to-bishop-athanasius-schneider

It's by Chris Ferrara.

Thought you'd like to know.

In Christ the King,

Margaret


Mark Thomas said...

Ana Milan said..."Mark Thomas. Thanks, I have it now, but that was nearly a fortnight ago. I thought it was something new, since the SSPX spoke and the Voice of the Family and Bishop Schneider."

Bishop Athanasius Schneider offered publicly his 6,000 commentary on Amoris Laetitia several days prior to The Remnant's article in question. The Remnant then attacked Bishop Schneider in an article published on April 27, 2016 A.D. I don't know whether The Remnant has retracted their vicious comments about Bishop Schneider.

The Remnant also denounced Cardinal Burke in the article in question. He, of course, had responded to Amoris Laetitia well prior to the article's publication date. It is simply a shame that The Remnant denounced such holy men as Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider.
====================================================================================

The Remnant today has published an open letter to Bishop Athanasius Schneider. The Remnant has toned down considerably their vicious comments about Bishop Schneider.

However, the open letter to Bishop Schneider has made it clear that The Remnant is not satisfied with Bishop Schneider's response to Amoris Laetitia. Although they are far more respectful today to Bishop Schneider, The Remnant has called upon Bishop Schneider to turn up the heat in regard to his attitude toward Amoris Laetitia.

Here is the excerpt in question from The Remnant's open letter to Bishop Schneider:

"In light of these considerations, however, we must in candor raise these questions for Your Excellency’s consideration: Is it enough to call, as you do, for “an authentic interpretation of AL by the Apostolic See” that would reaffirm Familiaris consortio 84 and the bimillenial sacramental discipline it defends?

"Is it not perfectly clear that such an authentic interpretation is precisely what AL was devised to preclude, and that therefore it will never be forthcoming during this pontificate (barring a miraculous turn of events)?

"And, finally, is it not also perfectly clear that the problems with AL go far beyond the ecclesial status of the divorced and “remarried” to an attack on the very foundations of the objective moral order, rhetorically reduced to a set of rules from which an actor may be excused in “certain cases”?"
=================================================================

Let us recall that in sharp contrast to The Remnant's utterly scathing denunciation of Amoris Laetitia, Bishop Schneider declared that Amoris Laetitia "contains a great spiritual treasure for Christian life in matrimony and family for our age..."

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Ann Milan said..."I thank God for Bishop Schneider as he is the only one willing (so far) to at least ask for clarification of the points he raised. I doubt he will get any but he should not be the subject of such harsh treatment."

Ann, I agree with you. I also believe that the folks at The Remnant as well as additional Traditional Catholics should not have attacked verbally Cardinal Burke in regard to his response to Amoris Laetitia.

A certain element of Traditionalists are out of control in regard to their rage related to His Holiness Pope Francis and Amoris Laetitia. They are on the warpath against such Churchmen as Cardinal Burke, and Bishop Schneider, as well as laymen who refuse to march in lockstep with the notion that Pope Francis is a supposed "heretic" who, in turn, has given us an "heretical" Exhortation.

The Traditionalists in question trample verbally anybody who does not march in lockstep with their brand of Catholicism. That is not the way that brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ should act.

There were comments on Traditionalist blogs that accused Cardinal Burke of belonging to the Homosexual Network for his refusal to have denounced Pope Francis and Amoris Laetitia.

We need to calm down and consider with great sobriety as to where we're headed in regard to the deep and vicious hatred against the Vicar of Christ Pope Francis that exists within certain Traditionalist circles.

Please let's calm down. We really need to consider the dire consequences that exist for Holy Mother Church when we heap vicious attacks upon Pope Francis, Cardinal Burke, Bishop Schneider...upon laymen who don't accept that Pope Francis has thrown in with Satan.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

viterbo said...

Bergoglio follows in the footsteps of Ratzinger. Remember, Ratzinger approved contraception 'in certain circumstances' - in other words, welcome private judgement. The deconstruction of the family according to private judgement began with the approval of 'family planning', which the Anglicans jumped into with both feet at Lambeth in the thirties.

In contrast to all this private hudgement revolution, Pius XII address to midwives: http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12midwives.htm - doctrinally bulletproof; no surprise since it came from a true Pope.

Given Bergoglio's recent public re-imagining of the doctrinally spotless Pius XII (read Mystici Corporis, and Humani Generis), the memory of the last true pope must be a thorn in the side of the revolutionary anti-Catholics parading on the world's current stage.

Those who scramble about trying to dig dirt on Pius XII - shame. They should study life of Pius XII - responsible for the conversion of Rome's Cheif Rabbi- and learn about the many modernist (novus ordo) enemies Pius fought with and was surrounded by even to the last. As one priest biographer said, if you could point to a fault in Pius XII it was in not being ruthless enough with getting rid of his enemies.

Peter Lamb said...

"... Do not lose heart. With St. Augustine We say that “all around us the waters of the flood are roaring, that is, the multiplicity of conflicting teaching. We are not in the flood but it surrounds us. We are hard pressed but not overwhelmed, buffeted but not submerged.”
(Pope Leo XII, Encyclical Ubi Primum, nn. 22-23.)

Peter Lamb said...

Objection:
Pope Pius XII lifted all ecclesiastical penalties during the conclave to elect the pope. So even if the Vatican II popes were heretics before their elections, they would still be validly elected.
Answer:
Heretics and schismatics are barred by DIVINE LAW from the election to the Papal Office. Pope Pius XII lifted ecclesiastical penalties; he did not, could not dispense from Divine Law.

Anonymous said...

The Pope enjoys full, immediate and universal jurisdiction in Canon Law. His words are not suggestions. They are binding.

Vox Cantoris said...

Therefore, if the Pope says that the moon is made of creamed cheese it makes it true?

The Pope is not Our Lord. He cannot affirm what is not true.

He cannot endorse state sponsored sex education when that goes against traditional magisterial Catholic teaching.

Nor can he decide that "situational ethics" can now be used to determine which adulterer is not really one.

Please, we love the Pope, as successor of St. Peter, he; we love him enough to tell him he is wrong.

No papolatry, please.

Blue Pill or Red Pill?

Peter Lamb said...

Dear Vox, It's not Papalatry - it's Catholic doctrine. When diagnosing cream cheese, or predicting the weather, the Pope is very fallible like anybody else. However, when exercising his God - given authority and infallibility, as Pope, in teaching the Universal Church, God Himself guarantees that the Pope cannot be wrong. The dogma of papal infallibility teaches that a true Pope cannot teach error, or heresy, to the Universal Church.

"When one loves the pope one does not stop to debate about what he advises or demands, to ask how far the rigorous duty of obedience extends and to mark the limit of this obligation. When one loves the pope, one does not object that he has not spoken clearly enough, as if he were obliged to repeat into the ear of each individual his will, so often clearly expressed, not only viva voce, but also by letters and other public documents; one does not call his orders into doubt on the pretext – easily advanced by whoever does not wish to obey – that they emanate not directly from him, but from his entourage; one does not limit the field in which he can and should exercise his will; one does not oppose to the authority of the pope that of other persons, however learned, who differ in opinion from the pope. Besides, however great their knowledge, their holiness is wanting, for there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope."
(Pope St. Pius X, Address to the Priests of the Apostolic Union, Nov. 18, 1912; in Acta Apostolicae Sedis 4 [1912], p. 695)

"To the shepherds alone was given all power to teach, to judge, to direct; on the faithful was imposed the duty of following their teaching, of submitting with docility to their judgment, and of allowing themselves to be governed, corrected, and guided by them in the way of salvation. Thus, it is an absolute necessity for the simple faithful to submit in mind and heart to their own pastors, and for the latter to submit with them to the Head and Supreme Pastor."
(Pope Leo XIII, Apostolic Letter Epistola Tua, 1885.)

"And it was upon Simon alone that Jesus, after His Resurrection, bestowed the jurisdiction of Chief Pastor and Ruler over all His fold, by the words: "Feed my lambs. Feed my sheep." (John 21:15-17).
At open variance with this clear doctrine of Holy Scripture, as it has ever been understood by the Catholic Church, are the perverse opinions of those who, while they distort the form of government established by Christ the Lord in His Church, deny that Peter, in his single person, preferably to all the other Apostles, whether taken separately or together, was endowed by Christ with a true and proper primacy of jurisdiction; or of those who assert that the same primacy was not bestowed immediately and directly upon Blessed Peter himself, but upon the Church, and through the Church on Peter as her Minister.
If anyone, therefore, shall say that Blessed Peter the Apostle was not appointed the Prince of all the Apostles and the visible Head of the whole Church Militant; or that the same, directly and immediately, received from the same, Our Lord Jesus Christ, a primacy of honor only, and not of true and proper jurisdiction; let him be anathema...
If anyone, then, shall say that the Roman Pontiff has the office merely of inspection or direction, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the Universal Church, not only in things which belong to faith and morals, but also in those which relate to the discipline and government of the Church spread throughout the world; or assert that he possesses merely the principal part, and not all the fullness of this supreme power; or that this power which he enjoys is not ordinary and immediate, both over each and all the Churches and over each and all the Pastors and the faithful; let him be anathema." (Pastor Aeternus.)

My dear friend, if Bergoglio is preaching error, or heresy to the Universal Church, he cannot be a true Pope. Please God make that simple dogmatic truth be known to modern Catholics.

Dorota Mosiewicz-Patalas said...

Forgive me, I am not commenting here any more, but would really like to express thanks to dear Peter Lamb.


Peter Lamb, thank you very much for the quotes above. I needed them to continue forming my decision in a way informed by true teaching. May God bless you.

Peter Lamb said...

Thank you Dorota. I hope things are going well. I have no doubt that many miss your comments and hope that you will come back here. XXX

Dorota said...

Thanks Vox
Thanks Peter Lamb - very much.

No, I don't believe in enabling delusional people, or dialoguing endlessly with those who refuse to hear. It makes my liver act out. Seriously, I had yellow jaundice in childhood.
Seen Ann Barnhardt's video on diabolical narcissism? 3 hours long. A straight shooter. I was accused of it, too, many times. She starts with a claim that her competence stems from being able to perceive reality. Rare ability these days. I brag about having a BS detector.
Got to protect my liver. Am not effeminate, but sensitive.

Some Latino (maybe Argentinian) wise man whose name I forgot said that virtue demands intolerance. I aspire to virtue.

All the best, God's blessings, much joy watching your grandchildren grow healthy and strong (body and soul).

Vox Cantoris said...

Darota, you are always welcome here!

viterbo said...

Dorota
Well, said. As one priest noted that I mentioned above, a lack of the right weight of severity makes a mockery of mercy and exalts one's enemies rather than the Church, which is suppused to be so awesome that even the gates of hell tremble.

Hope you keep commenting. The United mind and one voice is so easily recognised even from seemingly anonymous and supposedly separated sources.

Obnoxious Papist said...


I most sincerely hope this petition fails. If it succeeds, it will set a truly atrocious precedent. It will show that the Vicar of Christ can be strong-armed into unsaying what he has very deliberately said. And others can play at that game. If the cardinals & other bishops have said little, maybe that is because they see no error in the document. They are more likely to know what is orthodox Catholicism than any of us laity are.

And there is more: people say there is bad doctrine in AL, and they want AL withdrawn. Very well - that is how a lot of people feel about V2. If AL can be rescinded - why not V2 ? Why should the far more damaging errors of V2 be tolerated, when the far less serious failings of AL are not ?

All this foolishness will do, if it succeeds (which may God avert !), is undermine the Papacy and pervert the constitution of the Church. Every criticism made of AL tells far more strongly against the "new Pentecost" inflicted on the Church by the Popes of the last 50 years. Events are logical, even when people try not to be. The unwisdom of asking the HF to withdraw AL can hardly be exaggerated.

Anonymous said...

Vox is right. The Pope is infallible under certain circumstances:

1) he speaks from the chair of Peter,

2) on a matter of Faith or morals,

3) intending to define a doctrine which binds the ENTIRE Church for all time.

If any of those 3 conditions is not met, then the charism of infallibility doesn't come into play.


Please get True or False Pope? by John Salza and Robert Siscoe www.trueorfalsepope.com. They address what you said in detail.



Anonymous said...

Please see my reply to Peter - I just posted it.

Thank you.

Peter Lamb said...

The misconception that ONLY the solemn magisterium defining dogmas ex
cathedra is infallible is incorrect:
Vatican I (Dz 1792) and Pope Pius IX (in Tuas Libenter, 1863 and also
in the Syllabus of Errors, 22), have unambiguously specified that
Catholics must believe and adhere to, by Divine and Catholic faith
those things:
1. Contained in Scripture or Tradition, and
2. Proposed for belief as divinely revealed by the Church’s authority,
either through:
(a) Solemn pronouncements (by ecumenical councils, or popes ex cathedra)
(b) UNIVERSAL ORDINARY MAGISTERIUM (teaching of the bishops together
with the pope, either in council, or spread throughout the world.
3. Teachings held by theologians to belong to the faith.
4. Doctrinal decisions of the Vatican congregations.
5. Theological truths and conclusions so certain that opposition to
them merits some theological censure short of “heresy.”
Acceptance of the above is not optional, or a matter of opinion, they
define the object of faith and belief therein is obligatory. Further,
they are de fide definita – infallible, unchangeable, solemn
pronouncements.

This leaves Catholics with two options. There is no middle ground. We
MUST choose between:

Proposition 1: I believe and accept every word, every jot and tittle,
taught by the infallible magisterium in Vatican II, by authority of
our true Pope Paul VI and his successors, by divine and Catholic faith. The Catholic Faith is accepted in its entirety, or not at all. Let anybody who refutes, denies, rejects, even by one iota, or finds error in the sacred Council, or AL, be anathema!

Proposition 2: Vatican II is promulgated by Pope Paul VI and his successors, as teaching of their Infallible Ordinary Magisteriums, but its teaching contains numerous heresies, errors and novelties which are in conflict with traditional Church teaching. The Catholic Church is indefectible and cannot, by the power of the Holy Ghost, teach error, or novelty. Therefore, I solemnly denounce Pope Paul VI and his successors as heretics and anti-popes and Vatican II as a false and heretical Council and AL as irrelevant.
Let them be anathema!

Catholics must make this choice. Pope-sifting is not Catholic.
It is heretical and leads to damnation! Salza and Siscoe are sifters.

M. J. Ryan said...

I will try to be as succinct as possible. As I see it, the situation with AL is virtually identical to that found in many of the documents of Vatican II. While not outright or "officially" changing the doctrine and teaching of the Church, the contradictions, vagueries and ambiguities generate attitudes and practices among both the clergy and religous as well as the laity that result in the weakening and outright denial of the doctrine, teachings and even the fundamental Truths of the faith. Although these people call themselves Catholic, they really are not and are already apostates. If this were not so, then 70% of Catholics would not deny the Reak Presence, would not deny the exisistence of Hell, would not deny that Jesus rose from the dead, that Jesus is both God and man, that one religion is no better than another. This is satan's methodology -- to weaken and destroy the true faith of the people in order to capture the ones who are no longer true Catholics. And the ones who will be held as most culpable for the loss of millions of souls are those who have not boldly and clearly proclaimed and teach the True, Correct and Orthodox doctrine abd teaching of the Church. On the other hand, there are groups who voice their objections but not their credentials for doing so. Many appear to be populated by laity without any formal and in-depth education in theology. These groups have as great or greater potential for destroying the faith of Catholics as does the clergy. The situation is becoming obe similar to the heresy of protestantism in which each person interprets both Scripture and Church doctrine and teaching in their own way. This also leads to confusion and disunity . However, the Holy Spirit does not communicate different meanings about the same things to different people. We must be very very careful.