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Sunday 15 November 2015

Is Jorge Bergoglio skirting around what appears to be a heretical notion on the Holy Eucharist?

In a stunning address to the ecclesial community of the heretic Martin Luther in Rome, Jorge Bergoglio Bishop of Rome came as close as he could to mock the Holy Eucharist and hint at his desire for inter-communion with the heretical Lutherans.  He actually had the temerity to joke about "being scared" before Kasper and that he "dare not say anything more" concluding his diatribe.

Does Jorge Bergoglio believe Catholic dostrine in the Euchar

His remarks are insulting and demeaning to every Catholic who believes in the Body, Blood. Soul and Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ truly present in the Holy Eucharist.
He refuses to genuflect at the altar to Christ, truly present yet he can grovel on the floor to wash the feet of a Muslim. Is it his health or does he just not believe? How can it be his health if he can wash feet on the floor. 

Does his belief actually coincide with that of the heretic, Martin Luther? The Lutheran understanding of the Holy Eucharist is not Transubstantiation but consubstantiation, a heretical doctrine attempting as outlined in the Catholic Encyclopedia.
This heretical doctrine is an attempt to hold the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist without admitting Transubstantiation. According to it, the substance of Christ's Body exists together with the substance of bread, and in like manner the substance of His Blood together with the substance of wine. Hence the word Consubstantiation. How the two substances can coexist is variously explained. The most subtle theory is that, just as God the Son took to Himself a human body without in any way destroying its substance, so does He in the Blessed Sacrament assume the nature of bread. Hence the theory is also called "Impanation", a term founded on the analogy of Incarnation. 

Lutheranism is heresy

Lutheran bishops have no apostolic succession. They don't even try to argue the point that they do have it, as Anglicans insist upon doing. Their ministers have no power to consecrate bread and wine to Our Lord's Body and Blood. They do not have the belief, nor the intent to confect the Holy Sacrament, let alone the power.

When the Missal of Paul VI was issued it contained a blatant heresy that was corrected; or was it?
ORIGINAL TEXT OF November 1969 Missal of Paul VI

The Lords Supper or the Mass is the sacred assembly or gathering together of the people of God, under the presidency of a priest, to celebrate the memorial of the Lord. That is why the promise of Christ  : ‘ Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them ’ (Mt 18.20) applies in a special way to this local gathering of Holy Church.


In the Mass or the Lords Supper, the people of God come together, under the presidency of a priest who represents Christ, to celebrate the memorial of the Lord or Eucharistic sacrifice. That is why the promise of Christ  : Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them (Mt 18.20) applies in a special way to this local gathering of Holy Church. For in the celebration of the Mass, in which the sacrifice of the Cross is perpetuated, Christ is really present in the very community which has gathered in His name, in the person of the minister, in His Word, and indeed substantially and continuously under the Eucharistic species.

Does the Bishop of Rome believe the heresy of the Preface to the Missal of Paul VI, the Novus Ordo Missae? It was corrected, did he acknowledge the correction or does he subscribe to the heresy?
The Eucharist is not a "supper!" It is the Propitiatory Sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ on Calvary brought forward in time and re-presented in an unbloody manner on the Altar. 

Does the Pope believe this or not?

Bergoglio of Rome is telling this woman to deal with it as her conscience dictates. If he is telling her to approach for Holy Communion what is the doctrinal basis for this? What does this say about where he intends to take the Church? Is he giving us yet another clue of what he intends to do as a follow-up to the recent Synod?

Jorge Bergoglio, stop this insanity. You are the Bishop of Rome! You are creating division and anxiety amongst the Catholic faithful. You are creating confusion. You are playing with heresy. You have told this woman to commit sacrilege. 

Step back from the brink of heresy

Bergloglio is on the verge of heresy. History will condemn him.

Is this enough for Bishops and Cardinals to intervene?

Now, read below all of his words in answer to a question by a woman in a “mixed” marriage where she referred to "the hurt we've felt together due to [their] difference of faith" and asked about their ability "to finally participate together in Communion."

The question on sharing the Lord’s Supper isn’t easy for me to respond to, above all in front of a theologian like Cardinal Kasper – I’m scared! I think of how the Lord told us when he gave us this mandatum to “do this in memory of me,” and when we share the Lord’s Supper, we recall and we imitate the same as the Lord. And there will be the Lord’s Supper in the final banquet in the new Jerusalem – it’ll be there! But that will be the last one… in the meantime, I ask myself and don’t know how to respond – what you’re asking me, I ask myself the question. To share the Lord’s banquet: is it the goal of the path or is it the viaticum [etym. “to accompany you on the journey”] for walking together? I leave that question to the theologians and those who understand.
 It’s true that in a certain sense, to share means that there aren’t differences between us, that we have the same doctrine – underscoring that word, a difficult word to understand. But I ask myself: but don’t we have the same Baptism? If we have the same Baptism, shouldn’t we be walking together? And you’re a witness of a likewise profound journey, a journey of marriage: itself a journey of family and human love and of a shared faith, no? We have the same Baptism.
 When you feel yourself a sinner – and I’m much more of a sinner – when your husband feels he’s sinned, you go forward to the Lord and ask forgiveness; your husband does the same and also goes to the priest and asks absolution, [thus] I’m healed and kept alive in my Baptism. When you pray together, that Baptism grows, becomes stronger. When you teach your kids who is Jesus? Why did Jesus come? What did Jesus do for us?, you’re doing the same thing, whether in the Lutheran language or the Catholic one, but it’s the same.
 The question [Pope draws question mark with his finger]…. The supper? There are questions that only if one is sincere with oneself and the little theological light one has, must be responded to on one’s own. See for yourself. This is my body. This is my blood. Do it in remembrance of me – this is a viaticum that helps us to journey on.
 I once had a great friendship with a bishop who went a little wrong – 48 years old, he married [then had] two children. This made for great discomfort in him – a Catholic wife, Catholic children, him a bishop. He accompanied them on Sunday, his wife and children, to Mass, and then went to worship with his community…. It was a step toward his participation in the Lord’s Supper. Then he went forward, then the Lord called him [to realize] “I’m not right.”
 I can only respond to your question with a question: what can I do with my husband that the Lord’s Supper might accompany me on my path? It’s a problem that each must answer [for themselves], but a pastor-friend once told me that “We believe that the Lord is present there, he is present” – you believe that the Lord is present. And what's the difference? There are explanations, interpretations, but life is bigger than explanations and interpretations. Always refer back to your baptism – one faith, one baptism, one Lord: this Paul tells us; and then consequences come later.
 I would never dare to give permission to do this, because it’s not my own competence. One baptism, one Lord, one faith. Talk to the Lord and then go forward. [Pauses] And I wouldn't dare – I don’t dare say anything more.

Good plan not to say "anything more." 

You've said quite enough!


Barona said...

Incoherent babbling.... so sad to see it coming from a Pope.

Oakes Spalding said...

I'm not sure he's skirting around it so much as looking directly at us and double-daring us to do something.

Fox said...

This is heresy!!! When will it be enough that the good Bishops of the world denounce this blithering twit? And what is he talking about a good friend of his? a Bishop? That got married? Is he talking about a CATHOLIC BISHOP?! I have heard that it is quite accepted in South America. And if that's the case, well... There is another boil to lance. I think Jorge Bergolio needs to clarify exactly what he is talking about. And what kind of Catholic much less THE POPE, suggests, speaks of such a scandal publically, scandalizing his flock?! all while giving this as an example, it would seem, to a woman who is in a mixed marriage and asking him for spiritual guidance. I think he does have a tumor. Otherwise, we would have to admit that Jorge is evil and demented.

Dorota said...

He is talking about Tony Palmer, on whose Catholic Requiem Mass he insisted.
Tony Palmer, some kind of convergence movement activist, called himself the pope's friend, was frequently involved in projects with him as his ambassador, which many photographs prove. He was also associated with Kenneth Copeland. He was married to a Catholic.
He talked about spiritual racism and the end of protestantism (which he announced with Copeland and Jorge at an even not long ago).

From Wikipedia: "In January 2014, Palmer was sent by Pope Francis as a special envoy to a Charismatic Evangelical Leadership Conference hosted by Kenneth Copeland."

Kathleen1031 said...

Do we even need to hear from an Apostolic Exhortation in order to know the pope is promoting heresy? He is a nightmare and how long much the faithful suffer him. There has been so much said, and we are still waiting for the man or men who will finally step out and say, enough. Is everyone so afraid of this man they will not do it?

BrazilianJoe said...

If this big-mouth really believes in what he says, I would love to see him taking the Eucharist from a lutheran pastor in a lutheran church. I defy him to do so in front of the world. Either he does that or better off he shut up.

Sandpiper said...

Fox, you can't attribute these heretical ramblings to a brain tumor. A brain tumor is more likely to manifest as seizures, ataxia, vision problems, convulsions. The man is a narcissist and is theologically a Jesuit, Modernist bumbler and seemingly has been for years. His home diocese of Buenos Aires is in a shambles it is reported. He certainly is a chastisement on the Faith. There appears to be no bishop or cardinal willing to call him out. We are sheep without shepherds. The church is in chaos. Diabolical disorientation.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps he's heretical, or so close to it that there's no appreciable difference. But I'm inclined to think that he's simply very thick.

Yes, he's got political cunning, but he simply hasn't got the brain power to discuss anything abstract. And he doesn't seem to realize it.

Felix M

Anonymous said...

Is he on the brink of heresy ? Did he ever have the Faith ? to begin with ,even a lay person would not come up with that suggestion .

Anonymous said...

Is it too late for Francis to quit and become a Lutheran?

Honestly, i just read through his words, the man is confused.
Will Francis be known through history as Francis the 'Befuddled'? BerGOGlio or magog?

No wonder St.Peter tripped him up the stairs the other week with his Holy Mitre!

Ana Milan said...

Pope Francis is a disaster foisted upon us by an equally disastrous Hierarchy, some of whom are openly supportive of sodomy as well as the distribution of the Sacred Host to all and sundry without repentance.

At this stage it seem very unlikely anyone is morally fit enough to call him out. Keep praying the rosary.

raphaelheals said...

At one point I thought he was trying to make the point that St. John Paul used to make which was that Holy Communion is the goal not the means to the goal but then it went south. What really is troubling is that our Holy Father finds himself afraid of teaching Catholic doctrine because a heretical theologian is in his presence! I have never seen anything like this......the rambling at such an important moment. When one is so concerned about hurting the feelings of others rather than speaking the truth in charity we know we have a problem. It is one thing for a lay person to do this but to hear this from the Vicar of Christ is quite astonishing.

Anonymous said...

Vox, it's getting to the point where I just can't make excuses for this pope anymore. I was trying to be optimistic. I thought, perhaps I am misunderstanding his meaning. But this is too much. The Eucharist, the source and summit of our faith, our Lord Himself giving Himself to us in the holiest of all self-gifts... how could he ever say that denominations are no big deal? That it's okay if you're Lutheran because differences don't matter?

I'm beginning to see something subversive and sinister in this papacy and it's just so heartbreaking.

TLM said...

Yes Dorota, I remember that whole 'thing' with Tony Palmer. And when Palmer approached him wanting to become Catholic he told him: 'No, we need you where you are'. What the h _ _ _ kind of response was THAT????!!!! 'We need you where you are?' I wish we could somehow get him out of there, because even if the technicality of 'infallibility' never comes into play, he is causing GRAVE DAMAGE to the Church of Christ!

Anonymous said...

Christ formed 12 Apostles ,don't recall any of them been theologians Faith not knowledge is required for salvation .We now have theologians redefining our beliefs And what's worse ,redining the Word of God .

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

"We now have theologians redefining our beliefs And what's worse ,redining the Word of God"

"Saint" JPII "The Great" (Fraud) did exactly that when he arbitrary revised teaching on capital punishment for murder to fit his agenda, despite the fact that his revisionism contradicted centuries of teaching from both Scripture and Tradition.


As far as the Eucharist is concerned, the vast majority of Catholics no longer believe in transubstantiation or the Real Presence. Frankly, I doubt if most of the bishops in the developed world believe. I'm guessing Francis doesn't. He probably doesn't even know what it is. I also think neither he nor this bishops -- including those appointed by JPII and Benedict -- really know what the Gospel is.

If I'm right, then Catholicism has lost its very soul...and for what, exactly?

Anonymous said...

Does this Pope believe that Christ is living in the Holy Eucharist and it is looking like he does not with the attempt to have enemies of the Catholic Church accepting Communion against the teachings of Christ and the Holy Church. This is very revealing if this Pope is in mentally sound to run the Holy Church.

Eirene said...

Dear Vox - I am really surprised that Church Militant has not picked up (or chosen to ignore?) this story. Other blogs have and discussed it in depth. I am disappointed that, after his superb coverage
of the Sin-odd, Michael Voris and team are still unable to bite the bullet re. the Bishop of Rome. I was horrified by this article and the message it conveys to faithful Catholics about the Holy Eucharist. (Lord's Supper indeed!!) Any clues, anyone?