The Pastor, Father Joseph Gorman, has been removed for the time-being for "ecclesiastical irregularities." Last Sunday, Auxiliary Bishop Wayne Kirkpatrick attended the parish to explain the situation to the people. The next day Neil MacCarthy, Director of Communications for the Archdiocese of Toronto explained that there were two serious irregularities. Father Gorman presided over a wedding in the parish where one person had not received a "Decree of Nullity" and he allegedly wed two other Catholics -- a couple, according to the Toronto Star, in an Anglican chapel. It is also alleged that Father Gorman then altered the records to indicate that another minister had officiated. He is also alleged to have not followed accounting procedures for special collections and according to a report, gave parish funds directly to people "in need" in the parish. According to our sources Father Gorman was asked to take a leave of absence and to advise the parish and refused forcing the bishop to order the leave and make the announcement. Father Gorman is still listed as Pastor.
Please note that any comments about Father Gorman other than an expression of prayer for him, will not be published.
Now, let's get to the meat of the matter.
One cannot marry in the Catholic Church if one is married previously. An investigation must be held by the Marriage Tribunal and a Decree of Nullity issued that the first marriage did not take place for whatever grounds or defects are determined within Canon Law. Father Gorman knows this.
Not all annulment requests are granted. There are safeguards in place so that this does not happen. If this is true and Father Gorman did this it is extremely serious. It involves a desecration of the Sacrament of Matrimony, and the "second" marriage was invalid and the people are in a state of mortal sin (adultery) sanctioned by the parish priest. Secondly, marrying a Catholic "couple" at an Anglican church is a serious matter. What could be the reason for this? Were they not permitted to marry in a Catholic Church? Were they previously married? Were they a couple of the "same-sex?" Why would a Catholic priest preside over the marriage of a Catholic couple in an Anglican church and then falsify the documents? This is a very, very serious matter, it violates provincial government law as well as Church Law. Further, there were some alleged financial irregularities on special collections which are ordered by the Bishop for specific purposes. However this, if true, pales in comparison to the issues of the marriage ceremonies.
From the Catholic Register:
One cannot marry in the Catholic Church if one is married previously. An investigation must be held by the Marriage Tribunal and a Decree of Nullity issued that the first marriage did not take place for whatever grounds or defects are determined within Canon Law. Father Gorman knows this.
Not all annulment requests are granted. There are safeguards in place so that this does not happen. If this is true and Father Gorman did this it is extremely serious. It involves a desecration of the Sacrament of Matrimony, and the "second" marriage was invalid and the people are in a state of mortal sin (adultery) sanctioned by the parish priest. Secondly, marrying a Catholic "couple" at an Anglican church is a serious matter. What could be the reason for this? Were they not permitted to marry in a Catholic Church? Were they previously married? Were they a couple of the "same-sex?" Why would a Catholic priest preside over the marriage of a Catholic couple in an Anglican church and then falsify the documents? This is a very, very serious matter, it violates provincial government law as well as Church Law. Further, there were some alleged financial irregularities on special collections which are ordered by the Bishop for specific purposes. However this, if true, pales in comparison to the issues of the marriage ceremonies.
From the Catholic Register:
The archdiocese said it ultimately acted in response to an "ongoing pattern" by Gorman to disregard Church procedures. That was particularly the case when Gorman married a Catholic couple from his parish in an Anglican chapel "after being advised on more than one occasion this was not permitted," according to Neil MacCarthy, the archdiocese director of communications. Gorman then falsely indicated on marriage papers that another minister had performed the ceremony.
"This activity was contrary to the laws of the Catholic Church and violated the civil marriage act, putting his own licence to celebrate weddings in jeopardy," said MacCarthy.
"This was not a rash decision," said MacCarthy. "It followed ongoing discussions over several months with Fr. Gorman."
After Bishop Kirkpatrick read a statement, presumably at the homily, His Excellency was interrupted by various people who stood up in the church and shouted out at the Bishop demanding their pastor back. Interviewed by the well-known anti-Catholic Toronto Star (bet they couldn't wait for this one, eh?), Randall Gerrits, said that the people shouted that the "Catholic Church should be more open to change ... there was a standing ovation and then people started walking out ... nothings been explained; everyone is still in the dark"
In the dark? That's an understatement.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
You are a disgrace.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
You are a disgrace.
Your shouting out at the Bishop in the church during Mass and then giving a standing ovation to the muckrakers and walking out - objectively speaking was a mortal sin - it was a sacrilege. You also missed Mass on Sunday. You did everything but, the keeping of "the Lord's Day holy!" It requires you to go to the Sacrament of Confession before receiving Holy Communion again, lest you commit another sin of sacrilege for receiving "unworthily and bringing condemnation upon yourself." Hey, don't blame me, take it up with Saint Paul (Corinthians 11:27).
How could you possibly think that doing this was the right thing to do at Mass?
Gerrits continues, "I'm not Catholic. My husband's not Catholic but we go to Our Lady of Grace because of Father Joe."
A question for Mrs Gerrits, has Father Joe asked your family to take instruction in the RCIA -- the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults -- you know, to become, Catholic? Has anyone ever told you that you don't to to Mass for any priest but for God and to save your soul?
She continues, "During mass, he's funny. People laugh. He's great with kids and makes them part of mass, so they have fun and want to go."
Oh how sweet. How warm and fuzzy. (JB this was from the Fox)
Oh how sweet. How warm and fuzzy. (JB this was from the Fox)
Mrs. Gerrits - The priest is not be "funny" at Mass, he should be sober. The Mass is not about the priest, it is about Jesus Christ. Mass is not about having fun and your children should go because you take them and teach them, not because it is fun.
We go to Mass for four reasons which you can remember with the acronym, ACTS, just like the book of the Bible:
A = Adoration of God - FATHER, SON and HOLY
SPIRIT.
C = Contrition for our sins.
T = Thanksgiving for all the gifts that God has
given to us.
S = Supplication - asking God for our needs and
the needs of others.
Nowhere there does it say to have fun or to go because the priest is funny.
In all the time that you have attended at Our Lady of Grace were you ever told that the
Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the Sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary
brought forward in time and re-presented on the Altar of Sacrifice in our
churches? That it is a propitiatory (appeasing) offering to God the FATHER by God the SON through God the HOLY SPIRIT of the once and final blood sacrifice of Christ re-presented in an unbloody manner for the expiation of our sins and those of the whole world? Were you told that the Eucharist is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus, "tis God, the very God" made present under the species of bread and wine?
I have a question for Gerrit, did she and her family, non-Catholics, receive Holy Communion?
I have a question for Gerrit, did she and her family, non-Catholics, receive Holy Communion?
Gerrit adds that she is "quite certain that if Father Joe doesn't come back, that church will lose lots of people." Perhaps she should read John 6:67.
A petition is being taken up for the return of Father to the parish. The comments there are pathetic. They are of the same type as Gerrit's and worse. What is clear is that a cult of personality seems to have existed at this parish. A cult of personality that has caused these people to lose all rationality and moral judgement of right and wrong. A cult of personality that endangers their faith and their souls.
The comments in the newspapers and the petition which you can read by clicking on the links below is a judgement and a condemnation of the current state of catechesis in the Archdiocese of Toronto. The actions of Father Gorman, the standards of the liturgy, his dog in the sanctuary as commonly known are all examples of a failure of formation and education -- this is also a condemnation on his superiors and his professors and the people of Our Lady of Grace parish are paying for it.
Something else about Our Lady of Grace Church in Aurora that will make you sick to your stomach.
The cult of personality that seems to have developed with some parishioners for Father Gorman is quite strange considering previous episodes in this parish. Perhaps they're too young to know,perhaps they are new to the community. Perhaps the older ones that do know the history have forgotten or have have chosen to forget.
Last Sunday was not the first time that all hell broke loose in this parish and people stormed out. It happened one Sunday in 1990 when they did it to Cardinal Ambrozic himself when he announced that the pastor, Paul McCarthy was removed from the parish. A sordid and sinful abomination of innocents - there, in the rectory and at summer camps. Not only him but another. Barry Glendinning was stationed there as an Associate.
Who was Barry Glendinning? Look him up and the trail of defilement, sodomy and destruction he sowed in dioceses across Canada from Edmonton to London, to Ottawa and Toronto. The Diocese of London is still literally "paying" for the crimes of this man shuffled off from parish to parish and diocese to diocese by Emmett Cardinal Carter. Glendinning plead guilty in 1974 to six counts of gross indecency involving children in Windsor, Ontario and was given a suspended sentence and three years probation. Yet, he was later sent to the people of Aurora by Carter! A liturgist he was that Glendinning, just like his fellow sodomite and child pornography aficionado Raymond Lahey (former Bishop of Antigonish arrested and convicted for possession of child pornography and now defrocked under the orders of Pope Benedict XVI). It's funny eh, how these types always end up in liturgy. They seem to have a hatred for the Mass and what it truly means and all things Holy these sodomites; and a sordid saga of deception, seems to be a regular pattern for the poor people of Aurora.
Perhaps the parishioners of Our Lady of Grace parish in Aurora need to ask some serious questions to the leadership in this Archdiocese about what is wrong with their parish and why they are afflicted with such pastors. Perhaps they need to ask how they an be so ignorant in catechetics that they would develop such patterns of cult worship rather than true worship of Our Blessed Lord. Hard questions to be sure, but someone above Father Gorman owes this parish an explanation for decades long patterns and failure in teaching the Catholic faith.
It is a sad situation and a great divide has been created in the parish. It need not have happened, had the Pastor done what was asked and gone quietly for the time-being explaining the reasons to the people himself. Instead, he chose a different path and it will not be an easy task for the parishioners to move forward. From the comment boxes, it is quite apparent to witness first hand the ignorance of many of the parishioners, there lack of respect for norms and the rule of law and their hostility towards anyone that would try to explain it.
Pride is a dreadful thing.
Pray for Father Joseph Gorman and for the people of Our Lady of Grace parish in Aurora.
UPDATED:
http://www.catholicregister.org/item/19663-popular-priest-suspended-from-duties-at-aurora-parish
The archdiocese said it ultimately acted in response to an "ongoing pattern" by Gorman to disregard Church procedures. That was particularly the case when Gorman married a Catholic couple from his parish in an Anglican chapel "after being advised on more than one occasion this was not permitted," according to Neil MacCarthy, the archdiocese director of communications. Gorman then falsely indicated on marriage papers that another minister had performed the ceremony.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/02/03/aurora-parishioners-want-their-suspended-priest-back.html
http://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/5298720-aurora-s-our-lady-of-grace-parishioners-rally-in-support-of-priest-in-wake-of-temporary-removal/
https://www.change.org/p/cardinal-thomas-collins-we-just-want-father-joe-gorman-back-at-our-lady-of-grace-catholic-church-in-aurora-on
The comments in the newspapers and the petition which you can read by clicking on the links below is a judgement and a condemnation of the current state of catechesis in the Archdiocese of Toronto. The actions of Father Gorman, the standards of the liturgy, his dog in the sanctuary as commonly known are all examples of a failure of formation and education -- this is also a condemnation on his superiors and his professors and the people of Our Lady of Grace parish are paying for it.
Something else about Our Lady of Grace Church in Aurora that will make you sick to your stomach.
The cult of personality that seems to have developed with some parishioners for Father Gorman is quite strange considering previous episodes in this parish. Perhaps they're too young to know,perhaps they are new to the community. Perhaps the older ones that do know the history have forgotten or have have chosen to forget.
Last Sunday was not the first time that all hell broke loose in this parish and people stormed out. It happened one Sunday in 1990 when they did it to Cardinal Ambrozic himself when he announced that the pastor, Paul McCarthy was removed from the parish. A sordid and sinful abomination of innocents - there, in the rectory and at summer camps. Not only him but another. Barry Glendinning was stationed there as an Associate.
Who was Barry Glendinning? Look him up and the trail of defilement, sodomy and destruction he sowed in dioceses across Canada from Edmonton to London, to Ottawa and Toronto. The Diocese of London is still literally "paying" for the crimes of this man shuffled off from parish to parish and diocese to diocese by Emmett Cardinal Carter. Glendinning plead guilty in 1974 to six counts of gross indecency involving children in Windsor, Ontario and was given a suspended sentence and three years probation. Yet, he was later sent to the people of Aurora by Carter! A liturgist he was that Glendinning, just like his fellow sodomite and child pornography aficionado Raymond Lahey (former Bishop of Antigonish arrested and convicted for possession of child pornography and now defrocked under the orders of Pope Benedict XVI). It's funny eh, how these types always end up in liturgy. They seem to have a hatred for the Mass and what it truly means and all things Holy these sodomites; and a sordid saga of deception, seems to be a regular pattern for the poor people of Aurora.
Perhaps the parishioners of Our Lady of Grace parish in Aurora need to ask some serious questions to the leadership in this Archdiocese about what is wrong with their parish and why they are afflicted with such pastors. Perhaps they need to ask how they an be so ignorant in catechetics that they would develop such patterns of cult worship rather than true worship of Our Blessed Lord. Hard questions to be sure, but someone above Father Gorman owes this parish an explanation for decades long patterns and failure in teaching the Catholic faith.
It is a sad situation and a great divide has been created in the parish. It need not have happened, had the Pastor done what was asked and gone quietly for the time-being explaining the reasons to the people himself. Instead, he chose a different path and it will not be an easy task for the parishioners to move forward. From the comment boxes, it is quite apparent to witness first hand the ignorance of many of the parishioners, there lack of respect for norms and the rule of law and their hostility towards anyone that would try to explain it.
Pride is a dreadful thing.
Pray for Father Joseph Gorman and for the people of Our Lady of Grace parish in Aurora.
UPDATED:
http://www.catholicregister.org/item/19663-popular-priest-suspended-from-duties-at-aurora-parish
The archdiocese said it ultimately acted in response to an "ongoing pattern" by Gorman to disregard Church procedures. That was particularly the case when Gorman married a Catholic couple from his parish in an Anglican chapel "after being advised on more than one occasion this was not permitted," according to Neil MacCarthy, the archdiocese director of communications. Gorman then falsely indicated on marriage papers that another minister had performed the ceremony.
"This activity was contrary to the laws of the Catholic Church and violated the civil marriage act, putting his own licence to celebrate weddings in jeopardy," said MacCarthy.
"This was not a rash decision," said MacCarthy. "It followed ongoing discussions over several months with Fr. Gorman."
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/02/03/aurora-parishioners-want-their-suspended-priest-back.html
http://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/5298720-aurora-s-our-lady-of-grace-parishioners-rally-in-support-of-priest-in-wake-of-temporary-removal/
https://www.change.org/p/cardinal-thomas-collins-we-just-want-father-joe-gorman-back-at-our-lady-of-grace-catholic-church-in-aurora-on
43 comments:
Sorry to hear about such a serious muddle. Prayers going up for the priest, the people and the visiting bishop.
It's unsettling, to say the least, when the devil is given an opening to work in a parish and to cause dissent and division.
St. Michael: pray for them!
"During mass, he's funny. People laugh. He's great with kids and makes them part of mass, so they have fun and want to go."
Once again, the contagious cult of the entertainer priest. Buzz me Father, titillate me. Don't bore me!
It was 1990, not 1999
Indeed it was! A slip of the finger. I remember it in the news; I had attended a wedding there in 1991 so it was still fresh in the mind walking into the church.
I am only writing to comment on your facts. We're you at Mass on Sunday last week at OLG? The announcement was made AFTER the closing blessing. People did not walk out during Mass. The dog is not Father Joe's but belongs to another priest who has had his dog at Mass in Our Lady of Annunciation in Richmond Hill for years until his retirement a few years ago. If you are going to condemn people can you at least have the correct information.
This man was also the "spiritual advisor" of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul in Toronto, He followed on the footsteps of the now ex-priest Norm Roberts. One wonders what is going on at the Society?
My report indicates "presumably at the homily". You say that it was after the Blessing? Did people yell at the bishop? Did they give the malcontents a "standing ovation." Was the Blessed Sacrament there in the Tabernacle? Were dogs not allowed in the sanctuary in this church? Are the comments at the Star, the petition, the cult of personality web page not indicative of ignorance, division, hostility and utter contempt for the Truth and the Church?
My condemnation stands.
I'm parishioner of OLG. I didn't attend Mass this past weekend so I don't know at what point in the Mass, the yelling and applause occurred.
What I do know is that I've witnessed on several occasions, a golden retriever in the sanctuary. The dog belongs to Fr Scanlon (a retired priest) who Fr Joe is very close with.
I once asked Fr Joe "what was a dog doing in the sanctuary?" His response was that he didn't have the heart to tell Fr Scanlon he couldn't have his dog up there.
I later contacted the Archdiocese about this and they told me that he has been told on several occasions not to have a dog or any other animal up there - but alas Fr Joe never complied.
Roger, they have been more than patient with Father Gorman as the update here from the Catholic Register proves. Further, they asked him to take a leave and tell the people himself, he would not.
Upon his ordination, he promised Archbishop Ambrozic that he would "obey" him and his successors.
It is so very sad for this priest and for the parish. Satan is seeking souls, especially those of priests.
What has been happening at this parish is truly sad and disgraceful. Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison, Kyrie eleison!
Guess what? This isn't the 1700's. We are in 2015 and the world changes and so will churches. If the church doesn't change the catholic population will continue to decline. Is it a bad thing that people and children enjoy church? A bunch of crazies on this site that need serious help. To sit there and pass judgement on situation it sounds like you have no personal experience with is a sin. Do you remember when black people were not allowed in churches. Is it ok that they changed those rules?
Anonymous of 2/6 @ 21:31, if anyone is in dire need of help and prayers, it is you, owing to your abysmal lack of understanding of: 1) the nature and purpose of Holy Mass 2) the proper attitude regarding Mass. We need the graces proffered by Holy Mass to attain to our eternal salvation. Holy Mass is the unbloody continuation of Jesus's salvific act upon the Cross. We are not there to "enjoy church"; at best,that facet is ancillary.
As far as black people not being allowed in church, such action itself constituted a violation of canon law. It was far from being a "rule". As the Church corrected that practice - to conform to justice and canon law - so must she act to protect the sanctity of Holy Mass.
As far as "change" goes, what is up with that fetish? The Church in her essence will not change because Our Lord Himself is immutable. It is the world that must be brought to conformity with the church, not vice versa.
Be assured of my prayers for the awakening of your conscience and intellect. Your comments cause me concern for your eternal salvation.
I feel very sad for you. Every community has its share of problems and we at OLG, like anywhere else have our own. To condemn an entire group of people for coming together to worship Our Lord in a way that makes people feel welcome and loved is nothing to spit at. Father Gorman is the finest priest of I have ever had the pleasure of seeing celebrate mass. He never made it about him, he welcomed everyone with open arms, and everything was about worshiping our God. I am not going to comment on whether or not he made mistake, because it sounds like he may have made a couple. What you need to keep in mind is that the mistakes were made out of love for people and nothing more. To say that the Devil is a work at OLG makes me sad for you. It is sensationalist remarks such as these that continues to fuel hate and distrust all over the world. Father Gorman is a good man and a fantastic Priest. May God Bless you and keep you.
Anon 10:48:
Jesus said, "Weep not for me, but for yourselves and your children."
I suggest that the same applies here for whom you feel sorry for. Not me friend, you and your children who have to suffer with this and don't know what you don't know.
My condemnation was reserved for those who made a ruckus in the church and concern over the Bishop who was yelled at by people in your precious community. Clearly, you and they cannot see this. It is evident from the comments at the online newspapers, the web page about "Father Joe" and the petition that all of you have much to learn.
It is not about how you "feel" at Mass. This is the whole problem with the manner of liturgy today and lack of catechesis. It is obvious that you have not read this post, you surely have not understood it if you did read it you would know Mass is not about pleasure or fun or feelings! May I suggest you read a few posts below -- Behold, the Tabernacle of the Seattle Seahawks for some further catechesis.
As far as being about "him". I have never been to a Mass celebrated by Father Gorman so I cannot comment. What I can say is that based on the facts and what has been revealed in the Catholic Register there was a severe lack of obedience to the Ordinary (the Cardinal Archbishop) and Canon Law and the regulation of marriage licenses in the Province of Ontario, as well as the finances. If you wish to draw from that that he did not make it about "himself" then you have another problem. Mistakes were made. Yes. According to the Catholic Register and the official spokesman, he was told not to do it. He disobeyed and obedience is the first obligation of a priest to his bishop and it is not between him and the bishop.
It could not have been out of love that he did these things, objectively speaking (which means, I am not judging him subjectively). If he "married" two people, one who could not marry in the Church, (at this time), that could not be out of love. He put them in a position of sin of committing adultery. That is a mortal sin and if he allowed that to happen, it was not out of love, real love objectively speaking.
As for the devil, you are wrong. The devil is at work and it began in your parish 25 years ago, or more; or did you not read about that.
As for calling me a "hater" save that for the sodomite and jihadist apologists. It does not belong in our lexicon.
If you wish to be angry, you should be, but not at Vox.
Be angry at:
The Catholic teachers who failed to teach or who taught you heresy.
The priest who failed to preach.
The bishops that failed to lead.
The malformation given you.
The appointing to your parish of an already guilty-pleading and convicted homosexual pederast after he was shuffled from London to Ottawa to Edmonton and back to London to Toronto -- where he left of trail of crime and shame and sodomy and abuse and broken boys and lost souls!
Be bloody angry at the sexual crimes committed in your parish rectory for which nobody went to jail.
Be angry that the property has not had an exorcism!
The destruction of the liturgy.
Silence on abortion.
Silence on sodomite and lesbian marriage.
Silence on EUTHANASIA, now!
And let's not forget the teaching that the Eucharist is just a meal.
Be angry, be bloody angry.
Let us pray for Father Gorman.
Where does your condemnation end? You could go back much further in the history of the Church to find offences much greater than that of which you speak. The Catholic Church has a very dark history that I'm sure you are very aware of.
I am worried/sad for you because of the hate that you cause others to feel. Whether it be directed at people who you feel have sinned, or directed at you for your sensationalist views. You can quote the bible all you want, and that is your right. However, I challenge you to find anything in there about Jesus saying that homosexuality is a sin. Here I mean a very clearly stated quote, and not a piece that can be construed in any number of ways. Also, as far as the practice of marriage goes, I assume you are a aware that the Catholic Church (not God, Jesus or otherwise) decided that this should become a sacrament in the medieval times. Who are you, or I or anyone else to say what constitutes a holy, sanctified marriage? If you were truly a Godly person as you claim to be (and for the record I am not saying that you aren't) I cannot understand how love is not the focus of your writing. People make mistakes, people sin, people are not perfect, but who are we if we cannot accept them and help them to the best of our ability? Who are we to condemn?
Dear Anonymous: The fact is that Father Joe's homilies WERE ALL ABOUT HIM. His announcements WERE ALL ABOUT HIM. Everything was ABOUT HIM.
Dear Anonymous at 21:30, your comment deserves a whole blog post. Thanks!
I truly hope that this post will be rooted in love and in fact rather than in condemnation and fallacies.
It will be rooted in truth and only in truth can love be found. As I will be singing the Holy Mass at 2PM, 175 kilometeres from Toronto it will be up tonight. Please pray for safe roads.
Dear anonymous at Feb 7, 21:38:00
You open your mouth and chaos emerges. You seem to be incapable of thinking straight. Because Jesus didn't condemn homosexual acts, therefore the Church down through the ages was wrong to condemn them? Is that what you are saying? Jesus didn't condemn abortion either. Therefore we should not? Are you saying that the only evils that should be condemned are evils that Jesus clearly, by name, condemned? If that, is the case, then anything goes.
Now, as for the fiction, that Marriage, as a Sacrament was a medieval construct, the Council of Trent (Denz. 1801-1809) says quite the opposite. That is the solemn teaching of the Church. There is proof from Scripture, proof from Tradition, and solid arguments from reason. Who or what, pray tell, is your authority?
Now it seems, from your comment, that the holiness and sanctification of a marriage is left up to the arbitrary whim of the individuals getting married. (I say that this marriage is holy and sanctified. Therefore it is.) The Catholic Church has no business safeguarding the integrity of marriage. Is that what you are saying? If so, then once again, who is your authority?
Hi Brian (it's me again)
you do raise a good point that because Jesus didn't condemn something by name, then anything goes. Clearly that is not reasonable to assume. However, who then makes these decisions to condemn others who are different? I am not homosexual myself, but I have the privilege of knowing a couple of people who are. Homosexuality is NOT a choice, who, in their right minds would make the decision to be gay in a world that is still so ignorant and hateful towards those who are? It is not the work of the Devil. These are loving, intelligent people who have every right to have the love and happiness that we have.
As far as my reference to marriage not originally being a part of the Church, it is true that I have not looked into this fact in many years. Once upon a time I studied medieval history in University, this is where I learned this fact (through my own research). This comment was more to the idea of the Church being a changing entity to which Vox was arguing against.
Let me be perfectly clear with what is my belief, a belief which has grown through the Catholic Church. Love is where faith should begin. One of the biggest problems that I have seen with religion in general is people hiding behind their faith to make 'holier than thou' statements. These people attend Church regularly and therefore believe that they are superior to those who do not. You want to be 'Holy', or 'Good'? Get involved in your communities and make a positive difference. Don't judge others because they are different, love them for it. Have meaningful discussion about your differences. Condemnation ends any and every conversation and hate takes its place. Every single time.
Dear Anonymous at 14:43
I am not sure what you mean, by "Holier than thou statements." It seems to be a convenient go-to slur. Could these be statements, that uphold Catholic orthodoxis, orthopraxis and discipline, statements, that conflict with your own "Holier than thou template" a template that permits you to call into question the justified dismissal of a blatantly contumacious parish priest, whose "niceness" is, frankly, irrelevant. "Niceness", as much as we all like it, cannot be the litmus test of a Catholic priest's Catholicity.
I am involved in my community and I do strive to make a positive difference. In order for this difference to be positive it must be Catholic. This involves fostering and defending the faith, morals and discipline, of my Church. I made this promise when I was confirmed.
"Don'judge others..." Really, perhaps you yourself should practice that injunction.
"Have a meaningful discussion...". Well, I have tried to do that but your thoughts all over the place, like sub atomic particles.
Oh, before I go, you did not answer the question: "WHO IS YOUR AUTHORITY".
Anonymous, read this:
The Totalitarianism of same-sex marriage.
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2015/totalitarianism-sex-marriage
Brian, I'm sorry if you thought that I was insulting you, that was never my aim. I'm sorry that you think my thought process (or writing process, or both) are all over the place. I was simply becoming frustrated with people who I view as being very closed minded (rightly or wrongly).
I simply fear for a world where people push their views on others instead of celebrating the views of others, a world where welcoming discussion on any and all topics (while being open to them) seems less and less common. I have simply tried to have an open and honest discussion but instead of that I feel like I am being persecuted. Am I the best writer? No. Am I the most brilliant person to have ever walked the earth? Not by a long shot. Do I try to be a good person every single day of my life? Yes. Am I a proud Catholic? Yes. Do I push my views on others? Absolutely not. I would love to speak to anyone about my faith and encourage them to seek their own (with some encouragement towards the Catholic faith). People need to find their own way, and if you try to push them, they will not join you. Jesus spoke to people in a loving way. He did not call people stupid when the disagreed (as I see you did on the front page with an upset OLG parishioner). He spoke to them with love.
I will not be coming back to this website because honestly, it make me sad and a little scared.
Vox, I read the article that you linked... at least up until this paragraph (which admittedly was not far into it)
"Terrence Prendergast is the Catholic archbishop of Ottawa. Speaking at St. Thomas University in Minnesota in 2012, he outlined the consequences of same-sex “marriage” in Canada. His list included: restrictions on freedoms, forced sex education, sexually confused children, sexual experimentation among children, muzzling and debilitating the Church, more births out of wedlock, more in-vitro fertilizations, more abortions, more poverty, more misery, more disease, more addictions and higher health care costs."
If you think there is truth in this, I am genuinely afraid of you. I do not feel love here. I do not feel hope, or faith of any kind. I was looking to do some good, maybe learn something positive myself. God does not work here. May God be with all of you and may you let his love into your hearts.
Unfortunately, Not everyone is ready and willing to hear the truth. Vox, Keeping speaking the truth! There are so many people out there who learn from your posts and these discussions. God Bless you
Couldn't agree with you (Anonymous 9 Feb 2015 @ 19.30) more regarding all of your statements!
Anonymous again at 19:30
So your authority, when it comes to deciding what is and is not worthy of the name "Catholic", is yourself. I wish you wouid admit it. In Mystici Corporis, Pope Pius XII, reminded us what it means to be a Catholic in the full sense. You, obviously, must be baptized, you must have Catholic faith, and lastly have due submission to magisterial authority. There are many theological Catholics about. They are baptized and nothing more, ignoring matters of faith, morals and Church laws, with witch they disagree. Their replacement is, largely, a sentimentalist and laxist slop, informed, to a great extent, by the godless operating system of our pop secular culture. You have become your own magisterium. Perhaps your motto should be: "I say, that I am a Catholic, therefore I am."
Vox: Keep up these posts. It takes courage to do so. How easy it would be to throw in the towel and hop onto this "carousel catholicism", a carousel devoid of abiding truth, without a yesterday and without a tomorrow.
I just want to say that what happened with Fr. Joe is nothing but his own fault for not having more prayer life - rosary and Adoration to the Blessed Sacrament - about other comments of people talking bad about other religions, etc.. I just want to say that if the Catholics were to be more Catholics (wanted to be saints) the world would be a better place. Most of the Catholics that talk bad about other religion unfortunately are not able to say something beautiful about the Catholic Church. Some after attending Mass for decades don't even know what the word Catholic means (from the greek: Universal). Our Lady in 1917 in Fatima asked to pray the rosary in reparation of sins against Jesus. We have over 1 billion of Catholics, but we don't have 1 billion of them praying the rosary everyday… most of the Catholics don't even know what is a grace from God. That the word "saint" comes from latin sanus or a healthy soul. A soul that practiced virtues in heroic level.
Like one person that converted to the Catholic Church said once: "I did know how happy is to be Catholic and how beautiful the Church is, but the Catholic that I met did know that either".
Jesus said: "Peter you are a rock and upon this rock I will build my church". Not the church of Luther or any man made church. That is the reason that despite all the bad things that happened inside the Catholic Church the promised of Jesus never fail and Pope Francis is the 268 Pope after Saint Peter!
What's wrong with a dog being there? did God not create all creatures?? Anyone that grew up Catholic in Newmarket knows Fr Bill (Scanlon) and knows his love for his dogs. He had several over the years and most followed him everywhere, including to mass. His beloved Sheila was loved by the whole community.
As for Fr Joe. Yes pray for him and his family. This is devastating for them. A man's reputation, life, career and calling are forever tarnished.
I was at 2 masses the weekend the bishop was there. The announcement was after mass. No one yelled out. Yes people applauded when the bishop acknowledged how much Fr Joe is loved at OLG. Because he is. Very much loved.
People, including priests are innocent until proven guilty. There are 2 sides to everything. Remember that.
Money was given to those in need. Much like something Pope Francis himself would do.
Yes, there are 2 sides to every story. Fr. Gorman was given the chance to announce his sabatical and to give his side of the story. He refused to do that. That makes him look guilty.
Everyone is crying foul and asking that Fr.Gorman be reinstated immediately. Does that mean that with all the evidence of wrong doing people are prepared to turn a blind eye? That is shocking and is the very reason why humanity is doomed.
When did people stop believing in morals and values? The ones that say that if we do wrong, we should admit it. Ask for forgiveness and fix the mistakes so that we can learn from them and become better more moral people?
If anyone else committed these crimes, and in the eyes of the law and the church they are crimes, they would feel the full extent of the law. There would be no campaign on their behalf and no one to start petitions. So why does Fr. Gorman get special treatment? He should face the same consequences as anyone else. In the corporate world he would've been fired immediately.
In this case, Fr. Gorman's "mistakes" are worse since he holds a position of authority and power. He has abused that authority and power to mislead people.
The Archdiocese is doing what they need to to investigate and help Fr. Gorman. People should be praying that Fr. Gorman takes the advice he has been given and that he seeks help. So that he can become the pastor everyone wants him to be.
Doug Macmanaman has written articles on the subject of The Narcissitic Priest. Anyone who has their eyes truly open and their hearts would know that this description fits Fr. Gorman. His homilies are always about how he helped people and this stories at the end of mass only further highlight how great he thinks he is. When did he forget the virtue of humility?
How many times has he named people and their situations in his homilies? Is he not supposed to keep things confidential? Would people be happy to hear their own private issues and pain become the public knowledge in the homily? I think not.
Has anyone considered the people that are directly affected by his "mistakes"? Imagine their trauma and pain at finding out that they were misled? That their marriage is not legal in the eyes of the church? That they are in mortal sin?
If that was them, would these people still be shouting about letting these "mistakes" go? Would they not want accountability?
There is a lot to consider in this situation. And a very thorough investigation needs to be conducted to safeguard all involved.
People need to pray that this is resolved in the proper way and for healing for everyone, including Fr. Gorman, who has been affected by this.
I have heard Father Joe,several times at OLG, and I admire the way he presents himself to his congregation.He radiates the love of Christ in everything that he does.He makes his homilies come across to people of all ages. He is very inspiring to the youth in the church and makes them want to get involved.I will continue to pray for Father Joe, and I hope that he is returned to OLG.
Sincerely Yours,
J.A.
I've seen several comment that church isn't supposed to fun we don't go for pleasure. Well to a 3 yr old or even a 5yr old they don't understand that, they do understand that Fr Joe loves us, Fr. Joe taught us about Jesus. As they get older they will understand the seriousness of going to church that we are there for God not because it's fun. Let them get to that thought process, a child cannot understand this at such a young age. I've also read several references of "Satan" you as Catholics should be ashamed, when it was reported that Pope Francis stole a cross from a casket did we condemn him? You can all sit a pass judgement, but you can't pass it without taking into account all the good Fr. Joe has done for his parish/community. I don't care what position you hold in the church you should all know better than to judge as there is only one person who has the right to judge and that is God himself, You sure take a big stance on this witch hunt to oust Fr Joe, perhaps the Archdiocese should have taken a big a stance when two pedophile priests were placed at OLG, perhaps the abuse of child is something accepted by you. You make it so difficult to remain a Catholic with all your hypocrisy.
Your comment that I or anyone else would "accept" homosexuals as priest that have sodomised boys is repugnant.
As for likening me to a hypocrite at Church there is always room for one more.
You need not leave.
I am always amazed at the vindictiveness of the Catholic Church when their Priest stray from the rules of the church. I get the Church needs to deal with a Priest when the rules are broken. I have always lived by the adage "if you don't like the rules then either leave or try to actively help change" but never try to force your way through because you think you are right. Fr. Joe is a good man no question but he needs to choose the path he wants to takes not one defined by men whose thoughts are directed by the words of ancient times. Any path Fr. Joe takes will be a path of inspiration, loyalty, non-judgement and a path the Catholic Church poorly travels, one of a Shepard. I know lots of churches would love to have Fr. Joe as their navigator.
I'm not of the OLG Parish, but some of my family are and I have been in attendance at some of OLG Masses. Fr. Joe was one of my favorite Priests. Yesterday, he made the difficult decision to leave the priesthood. Some will be happy, but I dare say more will be sad. I believe that such a man will serve God well outside of priesthood and I wish him well in all he does in the future.
I saw Christ in Father Joe. The Scribes and the Pharisees have won nothing - again...
No Anonymous 4:24 you are incorrect; you most certainly did not see Christ.
Our Lord was "humbled himself, leaving us an example that we should follow his steps. He was obedient unto death, even death on a cross; therefore, God also hath highly exalted Him giving Him a Name which is above other names."
He said "Father, not My will but Yours be done."
Joseph Gorman did the exact opposite.
The Cardinal - the Pharisee as you would have it - was in fact a Father and a merciful one at that. Too merciful in this pharisee's opinion. The issues were known since at least November and not made public until January. Gorman was given offers of how to find his way back and he refused.
What you saw in Father Joe was not Christ, it was Joe Gorman.
Further, you seem to discount the fact that Joe Gorman not only broke Canon Law but Civil Law. Before you say that obeying law is Pharisaical think about that the next time you approach a red light.
In fact, your discourse proves me right that the Catholics of Aurora do not know their faith and was Gorman's fault and the fault of those that came before him.
Behold, the hypnotic power of these "game show host priests". What will it take to break this cult of personality "spell"? Clearly, some of these Gorman supporters, are thoroughly intoxicated, with the entertainment quotient provided by Gorman. Imagine that, going to Holy Mass to get buzzed by Fr. Flapdoodle.
sorry once last comment about the dog in the church, there was another dog who attended mass every day in Rome when the bells rang.....his owner died and he became a stray and would go to mass every day and the parishioners would feed him....Father Scallion's dog was loved and so sweet...anyone who has judgement about a dog in the church should be ashamed......it was the sweetest thing to see him follow Father Scallion up to the alter anyone who whined to the church really needs to look at themselves..the dog was smarter than most in the church and sweet......really people complained about the dog in the church....some people need a life....God bless....loved this dog...and Joe did the right thing to let him in......he/she was a lab if he was a dog for the blind they would not be able to complain, he was or is a dog for the elderly.......honestly ridiculous...can't imagine calling the archdiocese of Toronto and complaining.....too much...take care, I will make no further comment, I see how petty and mean people are.....
Well, things are looking good at OLG, sad that some left the church, Father Frank and Father Joshua were put in a difficult situation but they are making positive changes, the church was run down, Pews falling apart, AC not working and so forth...my mom just received a letter from Father Frank inviting us to a special mass for those who have departed in the past year special mass.....anyways, the Cardinal put good priests in the church I just pray for those who left...Joe Gorman has moved on he is not thinking about you..... I hope the best for Joe Gorman......I really do.....God Bless!
Hi Barona. You mention ex Priest Norm Roberts. Is that the same man that use to be head of the Office of Catholic Youth?
I remember the one time I went to Our Lady of Peace sometime in 2013. Fr. Joe picked out a high school boy from the crowd to be an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion. It was horrifying. Even the young boy was surprised and didn't know exactly what to do. He was giggling as he gave Communion to his own family members.
He has since left the priesthood.
https://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/6217534-2015-newsmakers-former-aurora-priest-doing-well-after-leaving-clergy/
Post a Comment