Friday, 28 February 2014


See update below
There are a lot of "isms" out there and the ancient heresy of Pelagianism has been talked about a lot lately in the Church. So what exactly is it? 

Named after a British monk and condemned as heresy by the Council of Cathage in A.D. 431, Pelagianism views humanity as basically good and morally unaffected by the Fall of Adam and Eve; it denies the imputation of Adam's sin, original sin, total depravity and the need for the substitutionary blood atonement of Our Lord Jesus Christ. At the same time, man is fundamentally good and is in possession of free will and with regards to salvation, it teaches that man has the ability in and of himself and without divine aid to obey God and earn, on our account, eternal salvation. 

Do you attend or know someone who attends the traditional Latin liturgy of the Catholic Church - the Usus Antiquior, Vetus Ordo, Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, Tridentine Rite, Traditional Latin Mass, whatever you wish to call it -- does that paragraph above describe you or the people whom you know? 

Well, Father Tom Rosica seems to think so. He has taken a rather out of context quote of Pope Francis (apparently against those who presented him with rosary counts) and he has used the expression in a sometimes angry speech, hosted on Salt + Light. He has accused people of only liking fanons and vestments and that those who attend or prefer in some way the traditional liturgy do not seek Christ. He does so in a raised voice and near angry tones when describing these people; you, me, whomever. He openly declares that these people are "divisive" aside from being Pelagians, which means that you, me, they are heretics.

Barona at Toronto Catholic Witness has transcribed the most telling parts. If you wish you can link from there to the actual video. I for one, won't be responsible for adding one hit to this less than adequate catholic apostolate.

What I wish to know is why is Father Tom Rosica so angry? What is his fear?

On any given Sunday in the Archdiocese of Toronto, no more than 700 souls, tops (and I include those at the Society of St. Pius X) attend this liturgy. In the Diocese of Hamilton, maybe 200, in the Diocese of London 150 between the Mass at Assumption in Windsor and Regina Mundi in London.

What on earth is possessing this priest, this university president that has turned Ontario's oldest Catholic university into a chaplaincy and sold off its heritage; this papal consultor on social communications -- this mocker of people calling them "Taliban Catholics" and "extremists" -- one who sues fellow Catholics and Tweets slander sheet newspapers such as Rolling Stone who whilst featuring a Pope on its cover, denigrates another inside to say nothing about distorting the words of the one on the cover; and he Tweets it, promotes it on his own feed as if we should be rejoicing over it. 

What is the problem? Why the reason for such hatred, yes; hatred and disdain over those few who seek after the liturgical "crumbs from the Master's table". 

Really? 700 in Toronto and including the FSSP in Ottawa and the odd mass in Kingston and Sudbury maybe 1000, give or take -- and maybe double that for across Canada; these few are Pelagians? These few are divisive? 

This so-called "division" is not created by these few people. No, it is a lie! This division is created by those who call these people names and have the temerity to equate them with heretics and question their spirituality, their devotion; they take their own personal issues out on the form of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass which was codified in its present form by St. Pius V for the western Church but had been celebrated in that manner in Rome for over one thousand years before that.

I am not saved by my works. I am saved by the all redeeming blood of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ on the Cross at Calvary made present at Mass in either Form (when in accord with the rubrics, matter, form and intent of the Church) and the Father's mercy through the grace of the Holy Spirit and may I die in a state of grace so that I may be granted a stay in purgatory if I am not fit for heaven and that I excape Hell. Does this sound as if I am a Pelagian? Are you?

Let me say this; most people whom I know that attend the forma extraordinaria also attend the forma ordinaria; I certainly do and I chant in both, every weekend! So, let's get this division nonsense put to rest.

Who is this priest to say that what I believe or what you believe because you prefer or your friend prefers to worship God exclusively in the traditional liturgy is a Pelagian -- a heretic? 

The interview is full of half-truths and distortions and detraction and it is unbecoming of a Catholic priest and one with papal mandate. It's time to call it out for what it is and from whence it comes.

Really now; who is being divisive? 

It is hatred, pure and simple and the question needs to be asked, why?


Salt + Light has removed the video.

The transcript, courtesy of Barona at Toronto Catholic Witness follow quoting Father Tom Roscia verbatim:

"The final ideological temptation, that the Pope has been speaking about; he refers to it as the Pelagian solution. The Pelagians, this group at the time of St. Augustine, believed that sanctity was the result of human effort without any assistance from God or the Spirit. This is the temptation of conservative Catholicism to a form of restorationism. "We gotta get back to what things were; the Council was wrong, this shouldn't have happened. We're gonna take you back to the real thing'"!

They seek a purely disciplinary solution to all of the Church's problems; through the restoration of outdated forms and manners, the usage of English [Latin?] language, incomprehensible to most of us who speak English. On a cultural level, it is no longer meaningful. We can see why Francis rejected the  grandiose Papal apparel. One of the things I felt very badly about (and I loved Pope Benedict), is the way that they dressed him up in these past years, and put vestments and things on him. And looking at some of the pictures; saying: this is not Pope Benedict. This is not this great theologian. And how many of us - hopefully not a lot of us here - loved Pope Benedict for the wrong reasons. And there's nothing worse than loving someone for the wrong reasons. 

I asked some of my friends who are very upset with the simplicity of Pope Francis; I said: what were you upset about; what are you upset about? "We loved Benedict! We loved the clothes, we loved the fanon"We loved all these exotic things from museum cupboards"! But I said: did you remember Pope Benedict's homily on Christmas Midnight Mass, do you remember what he said on Holy Thursday, do you remember what he said at the Stations of the Cross at the colosseum? "No! I liked the clothing". 

As Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Jorge Maria Bergoglio was never a fan of the Tridentine Mass, andhe only allowed it when it was mandated by Pope Benedict for the entire Church.There is nothing wrong with the Tridentine Mass; it was a very beautiful attempt of Pope Benedict to make peace in the Church. But for adherents of that Mass who wish to use it as a weapon of division, as a denial of the Council, as a mean spirited force; no liturgy in the name of Jesus Christ is meant to do that. Whether one celebrates the New Rite, the Extraordinary Form, the Rite of Paul VI, or whatever, it is ultimately about Jesus Christ and his life giving action in that celebration."


Lawrence and Susan Fox said...

Do you think he dislikes people who attend Mass in Latin because he thinks his critics are in that group? God bless you. Susan Fox

Unknown said...

He is insinuating that those who attend the TLM or desire traditional liturgy are superficial people who are fixated on aestethics and externals. He is entitled to say that and he is entitled to his opinion, but he is wrong. In saying this he is echoing what the Bishop of Rome seems to have been insinuating by his attacks on traditionalists. Let them say what they will. We should adopt a serene attitude and avoid becoming over-reacting.

Vox Cantoris said...

Lawrence and Susan; many of those that hold him to account for his statements do not attend the TLM/EF. In fact, the majority do not. Ask about that as just one example.

Aloysius; you are right, he is entitled to his opinion and he is certainly wrong; but, given his position in the Church in Toronto and in Canada, he needs to be challenges for these gross statements.

Barona said...

Fr. Rosica needs to come out with the names and number of subverters who were controlling and manipulating Pope Benedict. This is a very serious accusation. If there is a clique of manipulators in Rome, he has a moral obligation to denounce these men and expose them. I, for one, shall not hold my breath, waiting for this to happen.

But it goes further. It is even graver, as Fr. Rosica is using this as a weapon to bludgeon Catholics who do adhere to the Latin Mass.

Lawrence and Susan Fox said...

Vox, you are telling the wrong person. You need to tell Fr. Thomas Rosica that the majority of his critics do not attend the Latin Mass. Maybe he would lay off the criticism of Latin Mass goers. Fr. Thomas is a human being, and it's common for individuals in that group to fear anyone who doesn't agree with them. But what do I know? I live in Colorado.
Aloysius Gonzaga, I'm glad you are at peace. I have a close friend who only knows the Rosary in Latin. She said that the Latin Mass is pure poetry. I don't speak Latin, but I would love to go to an English Mass that is translated properly and written in pure poetry. Do you think I was born 200 years too early? But I comfort myself by remembering that when I get to heaven I WILL UNDERSTAND LATIN. Maybe that won't matter. Can you imagine the liturgies in the New Jerusalem?
God bless you. Susan Fox

Vox Cantoris said...


Vox Cantoris said...

There is no dialogue with a bully.

Barona said...

Vox, you are correct. I may be paraphrasing, but St. Thomas More said: "dialogue exists when two friends of the light, yield to the light and only the light".

Vox Cantoris said...

A few years ago, after I contacted him directly about his unfortunate "Taliban Catholic" comment, we engaged in dialogue by email. I was insulted, lambasted and even had my job security threatened by him. I've been insulted, called names and had not only my faith but my own mental stability questioned by him, in writing.

There can be no dialogue with a bully.

It is all on file in "officialdom" on both sides of the Atlantic.

Unknown said...

The traditional mass movement is not helped by dialoging, or arguing, with Fr. Rosica, or other people who have no interest in traditional liturgy. The model for the apostolate should be the attitude of monastics. The traditional benedictines don't engage in polemics, and yet they are doing more for the work of restoration than any one of us can ever do. Just work patiently, ignore the detractors, and good things will happen.

Lawrence and Susan Fox said...

Dear Vox, Thank you for the long reading list. I had read some of it already. What can I say? Fr. Thomas Rosica appears to me as a mediocre liberal. I'm sorry he's in charge of Salt and Light. I agree with Barona. He should be replaced. I guess I feel about Fr. Jenkins, the head of the Notre Dame University, the way you feel about Fr. Rosica. He had elderly priests saying the Rosary physically thrown off campus when POTUS was on campus telling us to accept his views on abortion. We have some horrific liberals in the U.S. Try going to Sunday Mass and having a woman walk in with full vestments and kiss the altar to do a communion service. My husband and I ran out the door and went to the last possible Mass of the day which happened to be in Spanish. But everyone else in the Church STAYED for the unanticipated communion service! Our Catholic laity are asleep. The list of abuses I have personally witnessed is very long so I won't bore you with them. But I will say that if we had someone like you to chastise OUR liberals my blood pressure would be a lot lower. Keep up the good work. God bless you. Susan Fox

Ioannes said...

The video can be found here. Watch at the 29:35 mark