Father Thomas Rosica protégé accuses Cardinal Burke of living in an "Ivory Tower"

Originally published on October 22, 2014. Much of what occurred during and after the Synod in 2014 is as relevant today as part II continues. Ironically, this Salt + Light assistant appeared on a program called "The Agenda!"

Salt and Light attacks Card. Burke: sticking to the ideal instead of ministering to people

Posted on 23 October 2014 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/10/salt-and-light-attacks-card-burke-sticking-to-the-ideal-instead-of-ministering-to-people/

Father Thomas Rosica protégé accuses Cardinal Burke of living in an "Ivory Tower"

Father Thomas Rosica's network Salt + Light's broadcaster Alicia Ambrosio harshly and unduly criticized Cardinal Burke as living in an "Ivory Tower." 

LifeSiteNews.com reports:

"Lauding the Vatican’s Synod on the Family as “huge” change, a producer from Canada’s Catholic TV network Salt and Light, headed by CEO Fr. Thomas Rosica, has criticized outspoken champion of orthodoxy Cardinal Raymond Burke, suggesting that he is in an “ivory tower” and “sticking to the ideal” instead of ministering to people — such as homosexuals and the divorced — caught up in the “messiness of life.”

“There’s finally a realization that maybe the way we’ve been approaching things doesn’t help, or it’s not taking into account that that’s an ideal and real life is messy and we have to be able to deal with the mess, not the black and white,” said Alicia Ambrosio, producer and host of Vatican Connections on Salt and Light Television, to the host of TV Ontario’s The Agenda program last Friday evening, Oct. 17. (Click here to watch the video) "

The Executive Producer of Salt + Light, is Thomas Rosica, CSB, the same Fr. Rosica that was the English language media spokesman at the Synod in Rome last week and said to heretic Gregory Baum in an interview that "you have been for me and continue to be a real model of hope." 

http://tvo.org/video/programs/the-agenda-with-steve-paikin/alicia-ambrosio-vatican-values

The transcript follows:

http://tvo.org/transcript/2231372/video/programs/the-agenda-with-steve-paikin/alicia-ambrosio-vatican-values

Piya says THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
APPEARS TO HAVE SOFTENED ITS
RHETORIC ON PREMARITAL SEX,
HOMOSEXUALITY AND DIVORCE.
JOINING US NOW TO HELP US
DISCERN WHAT THE CHANGES REALLY
ARE INDICATIVE OF, WE WELCOME:
ALICIA AMBROSIO, PRODUCER AND
HOST OF “VATICAN CONNECTIONS” ON
SALT AND LIGHT TELEVISION.
WELCOME BACK TO
THE AGENDA.

Alicia is a woman in her late thirties. She has brown short hair in a bob and wears a vibrant red blouse.

Alicia says GOOD TO BE
HERE.

Piya says THERE HAS BEEN
SOMETHING CALLED VATICAN SYNOD
THAT'S BEEN GOING ON THE PAST
COUPLE OF WEEKS.
WE'RE NEARLY AT THE END OF IT.

Alicia says CLOSE TO
THE END.

Piya continues WHAT IS A SYNOD?

Alicia says A SYNOD IS
BASICALLY A PERMANENT STRUCTURE,
A PERMANENT COMMITTEE OF BISHOPS
THAT MEET EVERY FEW YEARS TO
DISCUSS DIFFERENT TOPICS.

A caption reads ‘Alicia Ambrosio. Salt and light television.’ Then it changes to ‘Vatican values. Summarizing the Synod.’

Alicia continues POPE PAUL VI CREATED IT.
THEY SAID WE NEED TO BE MEETING
REGULARLY, NOT JUST ONCE EVERY
BLUE MOON, ONCE EVERY CENTURY,
TO DISCUSS THE ISSUES THAT THE
CHURCH IS FACING.
SO SINCE THEN THE SYNOD HAS
MET -- I THINK THEY MEET EVERY
KIND OF TWO TO THREE YEARS,
SOMETIMES EVERY FOUR YEARS, AND
THERE'S USUALLY A SPECIFIC TOPIC
THEY FOCUS ON.
SO THE PREVIOUS SYNOD WAS ABOUT
THE NEW EVENTUALIZATION. HOW TO
TRANSMIT THE FAITH IN THIS NEW ERA.
BEFORE THAT IT WAS ABOUT THE
MIDDLE EAST.

Piya says WHO DECIDES WHAT THE
TOP OF THE AGENDA IS?

Alicia says BASICALLY
THE POPE.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE CENTRAL
COMMITTEE OF THE SYNOD THAT KIND
OF SETS OUT WHAT THE TOPICS
SHOULD BE, BUT THIS TIME IT WAS
POPE FRANCIS WHO SAID, YOU KNOW
WHAT?
I'M HEARING A LOT OF STUFF FROM
BISHOPS AND PEOPLE WRITING TO
ME, THE FAITHFUL, AND THEY'RE
TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT
ISSUES THAT ARE AFFECTING THEIR
FAMILY.
WE URGENTLY NEED TO DISCUSS THE
CHALLENGES TO THE FAMILY TODAY.

Piya says OKAY.
SO THEY'RE GOING TO MEET, THIS
GROUP OF BISHOPS.
THEY COME OUT WITH THIS
PRELIMINARY REPORT, WHICH WE'LL
TALK ABOUT IN JUST A SEC,
THEY'LL COME OUT WITH A FINAL
REPORT, I GUESS.
THEY MAKE THESE STATEMENTS.
WHAT IMPACT DOES THE SYNOD HAVE
ON THE DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE
THROUGHOUT THE CHURCH THROUGHOUT
THE WORLD?

Alicia says NOW, THIS
IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION
BECAUSE UP UNTIL NOW, YOU ASK
ANYONE WHO HAS COVERED A SYNOD,
WHO HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THESE
SYNODS, IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE
THERE'S NOT MUCH.
THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG CRITIQUES
IS THAT THERE'S THIS TWO-WEEK,
SOMETIMES THREE-WEEK MEETING OF
BISHOP, THEY PICK A TOPIC AND
DISCUSS IT FROM DIFFERENT
ANGLES, THEY PUT OUT THIS NICE
FINAL DOCUMENT WITH
RECOMMENDATIONS AND SUGGESTIONS
AND REFLECTIONS AND THEN IT
DISAPPEARS.
NOTHING GETS DONE.
IT'S JUST A BUNCH OF REALLY NICE
THOUGHTS.
I THINK ACTUALLY THE POPE SAID
THIS: NICE THOUGHTS, BEAUTIFUL
REFLECTIONS, AND THAT'S ABOUT
IT.
BUT THIS TIME, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH
A CONCRETE TOPIC AND IT'S
SOMETHING THAT, FROM THE GROUND
UP, I'M HEARING PRIESTS, I'M
HEARING PEOPLE WHO WORK IN
MINISTRY IN THE CHURCH SAYING, I
REALLY NEED THEM TO TELL ME WHAT
TO DO WITH THIS SITUATION AND
THAT SITUATION.
I THINK FOR THE FIRST TIME WE'RE
GOING TO SEE A SYNOD THAT, MAYBE
NOT RIGHT AWAY BUT DOWN THE ROAD
WILL RESULT IN PASTORAL
GUIDELINES BECAUSE ONE OF THE
PROBLEMS THAT WAS IDENTIFIED IS
THAT PRIESTS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE
WORKING WITH FAMILIES AND YOUNG
PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO IN
CERTAIN TRICKY SITUATIONS IN
LIFE.

Piya says OKAY.
YOU SAID THE SYNOD -- I THINK
YOU SAID IT WAS A CONCRETE
TOPIC.
IT'S ALSO A VERY CONTROVERSIAL
ONE.
THE SENIOR CLERICS THAT ARE
TAKING PART IN THIS REVIEW OF
CATHOLIC TEACHINGS OF THE
FAMILY, I THINK IS HOW THEY
DUBBED IT, BUT IN ADDITION TO
OPENING THE DOOR TO DIVORCE AND
COHABITATION, ONE OF THE MOST
CONTROVERSIAL CONCLUSIONS FROM
THIS PRELIMINARY REPORT HAS TO
SAME-SEX MARRIAGE.

A new caption reads ‘Vatican values. A subtle or seismic shift?’

Piya continues I WANT TO READ PART
OF WHAT THE
STATEMENT HAS SAID COMING OUT OF
THE SYNOD SO FAR...

A slate on screen reads ‘Opening the doors?’ and Piya reads
HOMOSEXUALS HAVE GIFTS AND
QUALITIES TO OFFER TO THE
CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY…OFTEN
THEY WISH TO ENCOUNTER A CHURCH
THAT OFFERS THEM A WELCOMING
HOME. ARE OUR COMMUNITIES CAPABLE
OF PROVIDING THAT, ACCEPTING AND
VALUING THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION,
WITHOUT COMPROMISING CATHOLIC
DOCTRINE ON THE FAMILY AND MATRIMONY?
Quoted from ‘Extraordinary Synod of Bishops on the Family. October 13, 2014.’

Piya continues OKAY, ALICIA.
SOUNDS LIKE A STERN STATEMENT.
WHAT CAN WE TAKE AWAY FROM WHAT
IT SAYS?

Alicia says WE NEED TO
BACK UP HALF A STEP AND LOOK AT
WHAT THAT MIDTERM REPORT WAS.
IT'S ACTUALLY NOT A PRESCRIPTION
FOR WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, IT'S
ACTUALLY MORE OF A SUMMARY OF
WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID IN THE
HALL, BECAUSE THERE'S ABOUT 260
PEOPLE IN THE SYNOD HALL.
EACH ONE GETS A CHANCE TO TALK.
AND YOU CAN IMAGINE AFTER A WEEK
OF HEARING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT
THESE DIFFERENT TOPICS, YOU
FORGET WHAT'S BEEN SAID.
SO THE FUNCTION OF THAT MIDTERM
DOCUMENT WAS REALLY: HERE'S THE
SUMMARY OF WHAT YOU ALL HAVE
SAID.
IT'S LIKE A MIRROR BEING HELD UP
TO THE BISHOPS.
HERE YOU GO.
THIS IS WHAT YOU WERE TALKING
ABOUT.
IT'S NOT EXACTLY A PRESCRIPTION.
THESE ARE THE TOPICS YOU TALKED
ABOUT AND THESE ARE THE KEY
POINTS YOU MADE ABOUT THESE
TOPICS.
SO IT'S TELLING THE BISHOPS, YOU
SAID THIS.
WHEN I HEAR THAT STATEMENT
REALLY WHAT I'M HEARING IS FOR
THE FIRST TIME IN THAT ROOM
BISHOPS WERE TALKING ABOUT THE
REALITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE IN
SAME-SEX RELATIONSHIPS WHO WANT
TO COME TO CHURCH AND HAVE NOT
FOUND THEIR PLACE IN THEIR
PARISHES AND THEY'RE ASKING:
WHAT DO WE DO?
WHERE DO WE FIND THE BALANCE?
WE HAVE TO REMEMBER ALSO THAT
THE CHURCH HAS A VERY SPECIFIC
DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE AND OF
FAMILY AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE THE
CHURCH IS TRYING TO BE BOSSY AND
DON'T DO THIS, DON'T DO THAT.
IT COMES OUT OF A VERY SPECIFIC
VIEW OF THE HUMAN PERSON AND
WHAT THE HUMAN HEART AND THE
HUMAN SOUL NEEDS, AND HOW DOES
THE HUMAN PERSON FUNCTION BEST?
AND THERE'S FINALLY A
REALIZATION THAT MAYBE THE WAY
WE'VE BEEN APPROACHING THINGS
DOESN'T HELP OR IT'S NOT TAKING
INTO ACCOUNT THE FACT THAT
THAT'S AN IDEAL AND REAL LIFE IS
MESSY AND WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO
DEAL WITH THE MESS, NOT THE
BLACK AND WHITE.

Piya says OKAY.
SO ON THE ONE HAND, AS YOU PUT
IT, THIS IS LIKE WE GOT
TOGETHER, WE HAD THIS MEETING.
HEY, THIS IS WHAT YOU GUYS WERE
DISCUSSING.
WE PUT OUT THIS REPORT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I MEAN, WE
DON'T HEAR THESE KIND OF
STATEMENTS COMING OUT OF THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH.
SO IS IT A CHANGE IN CATHOLIC
TEACHING?

Alicia says NO.
BUT IT IS A CHANGE IN TONE.
AND THE CHANGE IN TONE, I
BELIEVE, FROM WHAT I'M SEEING,
AND JUST BECAUSE I'M HEARING IT
COMING NOT JUST FROM THE TOP BUT
FROM THE BOTTOM UP, THAT'S GOING
TO RESULT IN ON THE GROUND IN
PARISHES A CHANGE IN ATTITUDE, A
CHANGE IN -- YOU KNOW WHAT?
MAYBE WE DON'T HAVE TO TELL
PEOPLE THEY'RE WRONG.
MAYBE WE CAN WORK WITH THEM AND
FIND A WAY TO WELCOME THEM INTO
OUR COMMUNITY EVEN THOUGH THEY
MIGHT NOT BE PERFECT IN OUR
EYES.
SO THAT'S GOING TO BE HUGE.

Piya says IT IS HUGE.
TONE WILL CHANGE, AS YOU SAY, IT
WOULD BE A HUGE SHIFT FROM WHAT
WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST.

Alicia says MM-HMM.

Piya continues THIS COMES UNDER POPE
FRANCIS, I DON'T NEED TO TELL
YOU, HIS REPUTATION IS OF A
PROGRESSIVE POPE, A LOT OF
PEOPLE HAVE SEEN HIM AS A
FORWARD-THINKER AND HOPEFULLY TO
THEM ANYWAY OF BEING ABLE TO
CHANGE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
YOU SAID WHO AM I TO JUDGE IN
REFERENCE TO GAY PEOPLE A WHILE
BACK --
HOW MUCH IS THIS ABOUT THE MAN
WHO LEADS THE CHURCH, ABOUT POPE
FRANCIS.

Alicia says I HAVE A
COUPLE OF THOUGHTS ON THIS.
THERE ARE A FEW DIFFERENT THINGS
WE CAN SAY ABOUT THIS.
FIRST, I THINK IT'S UNFAIR TO
SAY THAT HE'S PROGRESSIVE
BECAUSE, IT'S NOT ABOUT -- I
MEAN, THAT IMPLIES THAT THERE'S
SOMETHING BEHIND THE TIMES, AND
WHAT HE IS REALLY IS REALISTIC
BECAUSE HE'S THE ONLY -- NOT THE
ONLY, BUT ONE OF THE FEW POPES
WE'VE HAD IN RECENT TIMES WHO
HAS ACTUALLY WORKED IN THE
TRENCHES, SO TO SPEAK.
THIS IS THE MAN WHO AS
ARCHBISHOP DIDN'T GO TO THE RICH
PARISHES TO MEET PEOPLE BUT WENT
INTO THE SLUMS TO MEET PEOPLE
THERE AND DISCOVERED THAT THERE
WERE A LOT OF REALLY POOR PEOPLE
IN THESE SLUMS WHO HAD A LOT OF
FAITH BUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF
THEIR LIVES WERE MESSY AND THEY
COULDN'T LIVE UP TO WHAT THEY
SAW AS THE CATHOLIC IDEAL.
SO HE'S REALISTIC, MORE THAN
ANYTHING.
HERE'S WHAT WE'VE GOT ON PAPER.
THIS IS WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN
THE WORLD.
LET'S OPEN OUR EYES AND BE
REALISTIC HERE.
NOW, IS THIS HIM TRYING TO PUSH
THE CHURCH IN A NEW DIRECTION?
HE IS AND HE ISN'T.
HE'S TRYING TO GET THE BISHOPS
TO DO IT THEMSELVES.
HE MADE ONE COMMENT, ONE
STATEMENT AT THE BEGINNING OF
THE SYNOD AND THE CRUX OF IT WAS
REALLY: I WANT YOU ALL TO SIT
HERE, SPEAK OPENLY, SPEAK
FREELY, DON'T BITE YOUR TONGUE
BECAUSE YOU THINK I WON'T LIKE
WHAT YOU SAY.
GO.
HAVE THIS DISCUSSION.
AND THAT'S ALL HE'S REALLY SAID
ABOUT THIS.
SO IT'S ALL BEEN THE BISHOPS AND
THE CARDINALS AND THE LAY
EXPERTS WHO HAVE BEEN INVITED
THEMSELVES SAYING, WELL, I SEE
THIS.
I SEE THAT.
THIS IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S A
PROBLEM.
WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT THIS?
THIS IS COMING FROM WITHIN.
THIS IS NOT HIM LEADING ANYONE
BY THE NOSE.

Piya says I SUPPOSE IT'S LIKE
ALMOST ANYTHING IN THE WORLD
WHERE YOU SEE OR HEAR WHAT YOU
WANT OUT OF WHAT SOMEONE IS
SAYING.
CONSERVATIVE CATHOLICS HAVE
SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THIS MESSAGE
OUT OF THE PRELIMINARY REPORT
AND I WANT TO READ WHAT CARDINAL
RAYMOND BOURQUE, A CONSERVATIVE
CARDINAL SAID, RAYMOND BOURQUE,
HERE'S WHAT HE SAID...

A new slate on screen reads ‘Open to change?’ 

Piya reads
WHILE THE DOCUMENT IN QUESTION
PURPORTS TO REPORT ONLY THE
DISCUSSION, WHICH TOOK PLACE
AMONG THE SYNOD FATHERS, IT, I
N FACT, ADVANCES POSITIONS
WHICH MANY SYNOD FATHERS DO
NOT ACCEPT AND, I WOULD SAY,
AS FAITHFUL SHEPHERS OF THE
FLOCK CANNOT ACCEPT.
Quoted from ‘The Catholic World Report by Cardinal Raymond Burke. October 14, 2014.’

Piya continues HE SAID THAT I THINK
14TH, A COUPLE DAYS AGO.
IF THIS IS JUST, AS YOU SUGGEST
IT IS, A TONAL CHANGE IS NOT A
TEACHING CHANGE, WHY HAVE WE
BEEN SEEING THAT KIND OF
REACTION OUT OF MORE
CONSERVATIVE CATHOLICS?

Alicia says WELL, I
MEAN, IT'S KIND OF LIKE WHAT YOU
SEE IN POLITICS AS WELL LEFT AND
RIGHT, NO MATTER WHAT THE OTHER
SIDE SAYS, THIS SIDE IS GOING TO
FREAK OUT.
CARDINAL BURKE COMES FROM A
STREAM THAT DOESN'T BELIEVE WE
SHOULD EVEN BE HAVING THIS
CONVERSATION, THAT THIS IS THE
TRUTH, THIS IS WHAT SHOULD BE
HAPPENING.
IF YOU'RE NOT MEETING UP TO THE
TRUTH, IF YOU'RE NOT LIVING UP
TO THIS IDEAL, YOU'RE WRONG, AND
THERE SHOULD BE NO CONVERSATION
ABOUT HOW TO BEND TO WELCOME
PEOPLE IN BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE
BENDING ON THE TRUTH.
SO IT'S REALLY -- IT'S A MIND
SET AND DISCUSSIONS I'VE HAD
WITH OTHER JOURNALISTS AND OTHER
CATHOLICS, WE'RE REALLY
WONDERING, WHAT'S GOING TO
HAPPEN TO CARDINAL BURKE AND
OTHERS OF HIS ILK AFTER THE
SYNOD?
BECAUSE IF THIS CONVERSATION
GOES DOWN THE ROAD THAT THEY
CAN'T ACCEPT, THEN WHAT?

Piya says ARE THEY OUT OF
TOUCH?

Alicia hesitates I THINK --
I THINK --

Piya says YOU MADE THE CASE
THAT WE HAVE A POPE THAT IS, YOU
KNOW, REFLECTING WHAT HE SEES IN
REALITY.
THAT STATEMENT FROM CARDINAL
BURKE SEEMS TO SAY MAYBE HE
DOESN'T GET WHAT THE POPE AT
LEAST IS SEEING ON THE GROUND.

Alicia says YEAH.
AND FROM WHAT I KNOW OF CARDINAL
BURKE'S BACKGROUND, THE LAST TEN
YEARS OR SO HASN'T BEEN IN
PASTORAL WORK, IT'S BEEN RUNNING
AN ARCHDIOCESE, SO THERE HASN'T
BEEN THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO GET
IN THE TRENCHES AND SEE THE
MESSINESS OF LIFE.
IT'S LIVING WITH A BELIEF THAT
THIS IS WHAT WE TEACH, THIS IS
THE TRUTH -- STICK WITH IT.
OTHERWISE, YOU'RE OUT, AND WE
SHOULDN'T BE DISCUSSING WHAT
THAT TRUTH IS BECAUSE THEN WE'RE
CHANGING WHAT WE ARE COMPLETELY.
SO I THINK, JUST LIKE I COULD
SAY THAT POPE FRANCIS IS
REALISTIC AS OPPOSED TO
PROGRESSIVE, I THINK STATEMENTS
LIKE CARDINAL BURKE'S ARE COMING
FROM A PLACE OF -- MORE OF BEING
IN AN IVORY TOWER AND, YOU KNOW,
JUST LIVING WITH THE IDEAL,
STICKING TO THE IDEAL.

Piya says IN THE PAST,
ARGUABLY, THE VOICE FROM THE
IVORY TOWER WAS HEARD QUITE
LOUDLY.
HOW MUCH IS THAT CHANGING IN THE
CHURCH?

Alicia says WELL, THE
POWER STRUCTURES HAVE CHANGED.
JUST LOOKING AT THE VATICAN,
WHICH IS MY SPECIALTY, IN THE
PAST, EVEN THERE, IT WAS A GAME.
IT WAS KNOWING WHO TO PLEASE TO
GET YOUR OPINION HEARD, TO GET
YOUR POSITION PUT FORWARD, AND
TO GET THE BOSS' FAVOUR.
THAT'S ALL CHANGED.
AND I'VE BEEN TOLD FROM PEOPLE
WHO ARE LIVING AND WORKING
THERE, EVEN IF YOU SEE SOMEONE
MEETING WITH THE POPE ON A
WEEKLY BASIS, ON A REGULAR
BASIS, THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY
MEAN THAT PERSON HAS THE POPE'S
EAR OR THE POPE'S CONFIDENCE.
SO THAT'S CHANGING, AND IF IT'S
CHANGING AT THAT LEVEL, IT'S
CHANGING ON THE LOWER LEVELS AS
WELL.

A caption reads ‘Vatican values. A Cardinal divide?’

Alicia continues WHAT I'VE SEEN,
YOU KNOW, IN
VARIOUS PARTS OF THE CHURCH IN
PARISHES, THE LAYPEOPLE FINALLY
FEEL LIKE THEIR VOICE IS BEING
HEARD, THEIR LIVES ARE BEING
REFLECTED IN WHAT THIS POPE IS
SAYING AND THAT'S HUGE.
SO WE'RE GETTING THAT CHANGE
FROM THE TOP DOWN AND FROM THE
BOTTOM UP BECAUSE NOW, TO BE
CREDIBLE TO THE LAYPEOPLE, TO BE
CREDIBLE TO THE FAITHFUL, IT'S
NOT JUST ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BEING
REALLY HOLY AND BEING REALLY
PRAYERFUL AND GIVING A GOOD
SERMON, IT'S ABOUT WALKING THE
WALK.

Piya says THAT ON THE OTHER
HAND IS THE CHALLENGE PUT FORTH,
IF I CAN PUT IT THAT WAY, BY
MORE CONSERVATIVES FROM THE
CHURCH.
I WANT TO READ SOMETHING FROM
FRANCIS DEBERNARDO WHO IS HEAD
OF THE NEW WAYS MINISTRY WHO
CALLED IT “SIGNIFICANT” WHAT
HAPPENED AT THE SYNOD SO FAR...

Piya reads a new slate titled ‘Real change?’ She says
IT’S NOT JUST A CHANGE OF TONE.
NEVER BEFORE HAS THE CHURCH
TALKED ABOUT LESBIANS AND GAYS
HAVING GIFTS TO OFFER. NEVER
BEFORE HAS THE CHURCH ACCEPTED
THAT THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION
HAS SOMETHING POSITIVE TO OFFER.
Quoted from ‘The Independent by Francis De Bernardo. October 16, 2014.’

Piya continues WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF
THOSE COMMENTS?
HERE'S SOMEONE SITTING THERE
SAYING: WAIT A MINUTE.
THEY NEVER EVEN SAID WE HAVE
GIFTS TO GIVE!

Alicia smiles and says WHICH IS
TRUE.
AND PROBABLY IN THE PAST, YOU
KNOW, IF A PASTOR DID FEEL THAT
THE GAYS IN HIS COMMUNITY HAD
SOMETHING TO OFFER TO THE
PARISH, IT WAS SAID QUIETLY AND
IT WAS KIND OF, THEY WERE
WELCOMED INTO THE PARISH QUIETLY
AND HUSH HUSH AND NOT IN EVERY
PARISH.
I MEAN, I THINK ALSO THERE'S A
TENDENCY WITH GROUPS LIKE NEW
WAVE TO REALLY MAYBE HOPING FOR
A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH, HOPING
THAT DOCTRINE WILL BE REWRITTEN,
THAT CHURCH TEACHING WILL BE
REWRITTEN.
BUT THAT SHIFT IN TONE IS BIG.
I THINK HE'S RIGHT, THAT IS BIG
BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, IT
MEANS THAT ON THE GROUND LEVEL,
IN THE PARISH, IT'S SUDDENLY --
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ACCEPTABLE
TO OTHER FAITHFUL, IT'S NOT
GOING TO BE ACCEPTABLE TO
EXCLUDE SOMEONE WHO HAS A
SINCERE THIRST FOR GOD AND WHO
HAS A SINCERE DESIRE TO PRACTISE
THEIR FAITH BUT IS EITHER IN A
SAME-SEX RELATIONSHIP OR IS
DIVORCED AND REMARRIED.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ACCEPTABLE
TO EXCLUDE THAT PERSON ANYMORE,
AND THAT'S HUGE.

Piya says I SUPPOSE THE
ARGUMENT IS THAT THERE IS A LONG
ROAD BETWEEN ACCEPTANCE AND
INCLUSION, AND YOU'RE SAYING
THAT THIS IS THE FIRST STEP
TOWARDS -- ON THAT JOURNEY.

Alicia says YES.
BUT IT'S A DIFFERENT -- WE'RE
NOT GOING TO SEE -- I CAN'T
REPEAT THIS ENOUGH.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE CHURCH
TEACHING CHANGE AND SAY SUDDENLY
IT'S OKAY TO BE DIVORCED AND GET
REMARRIED OR THE CHURCH IS GOING
TO PERFORM MARRIAGES BETWEEN
COUPLES OF THE SAME SEX.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE THAT.
BUT WE ARE GOING TO SEE THAT THE
PARISH DOORS OPEN AND THESE
PEOPLE WILL FIND A PLACE TO LIVE
THEIR FAITH, BECAUSE I THINK THE
ASSUMPTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN, IF
YOU'RE IN ONE OF THESE
SITUATIONS THAT THE CHURCH
CONSIDERS IRREGULAR, THEN
CLEARLY YOU MUST HAVE LOST FAITH
AND ABANDONED THE CHURCH.
AND THE REALITY IS, THAT'S OFTEN
NOT THE CASE.
IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
IT'S PEOPLE WHO FIND THEMSELVES
IN A SITUATION THAT THE CHURCH
DEEMS IRREGULAR OR NOT ALLOWABLE
THAT ACTUALLY STRUGGLE BECAUSE
MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THEY'RE
STILL VERY FAITHFUL PEOPLE BUT
THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'VE BEEN
ALIENATED BY THEIR CHURCH AND A
LOT OF TIMES THAT'S THE ONLY
COMMUNITY THAT THEY'VE KNOWN.
THAT'S BEEN THEIR COMMUNITY MORE
THAN THE WIDER CIVIC COMMUNITY
AND THEY FEEL ALIENATED.
I MEAN, I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK
AT IT FROM THAT ANGLE.

Piya says I WANT TO LOOK AT IT
FROM ONE MORE ANGLE, AND THAT IS
POPE FRANCIS, COMING TO BE A
CELEBRATED POPE.
WHEN IT COMES TO FAMILY VALUES,
THERE'S LOTS OF DISCUSSION
BETWEEN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
NORTH AND SOUTH.
WHEN IT COMES TO FAMILY VALUES,
HOW IS THAT RIFT WHEN WE COMPARE
THE GLOBAL NORTH TO THE GLOBAL
SOUTH?

Alicia says THE
CHALLENGES ARE DIFFERENT.
THE VALUES ARE STILL THERE.
BUT THE CHALLENGES ARE
DIFFERENT.
SO IN THE GLOBAL SOUTH, YOU'RE
LOOKING AT POVERTY IS REALLY
YOUR MAJOR CHALLENGE TO THE
FAMILY.
WHAT I'VE HEARD FRANCIS TALK
ABOUT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IN THE
GLOBAL SOUTH, YOU'RE STILL
SEEING PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DESIRE
TO FORM A FAMILY, WHO HAVE A
DESIRE TO BE IN A PERMANENT
RELATIONSHIP, BUT THE CHALLENGES
ARE DIFFERENT.
IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT THAT THEY
CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE THEIR
CHURCH DOESN'T ACCEPT THEM,
BECAUSE THEIR PARTNERS OF THE
SAME SEX OR BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN
DIVORCED AND REMARRIED, THE
CHALLENGE THERE IS: WE JUST
CAN'T AFFORD IT.
SO WE'RE GOING TO LIVE TOGETHER
BECAUSE WE CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE
A WEDDING.
AND WE HAVE THESE CHILDREN AND
WE'RE GOING TO RAISE THEM THE
BEST WE CAN EVEN IF THE CHURCH
SAYS WE'RE KIND OF WRONG, BUT WE
CAN'T AFFORD ANY OTHER WAY.

Piya says THAT IS SO
INTERESTING.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE HEARD OVER THE
LAST 10, 15 MINUTES TALKING
ABOUT THIS TONAL SHIFT AND I
THINK THIS IS A BIT OF AN UNFAIR
QUESTION BECAUSE I'M GOING TO
ASK YOU TO SORT OF STEREOTYPE A
COMMUNITY OF MILLIONS AND
MILLIONS, BUT DO CATHOLICS WANT
TO SEE A MORE OPEN TONE FROM THE
CHURCH, AND IF SO, WILL THEY BE
ACCEPTING OF IT IF IT DOESN'T,
DOWN THE ROAD, MEANS IT MAKES NO
CHANGES?

Alicia says I THINK --
OKAY, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S
KIND OF UNFAIR TO STEREOTYPE
SUCH A LARGE GROUP.
THERE ISN'T ANY ONE ANSWER TO
THAT BECAUSE WITHIN THE
CHURCH -- AND HERE I CAN ONLY
SPEAK MOST OF THE NORTH AMERICAN
CHURCH, THAT'S WHAT I LIVE,
THAT'S WHAT I SEE MOST.
THERE'S A POLARIZATION.
THERE'S A LEFT AND RIGHT
POLARIZATION.
SO WE WILL SEE CATHOLICS WHO ARE
VERY HAPPY WITH THE TONAL
CHANGE, WHO ARE VERY HAPPY THAT
FINALLY WHAT WE'RE HEARING, AT
LEAST ON THE PASTORAL LEVEL,
REFLECTS REALITY AND WE'RE GOING
TO SEE CATHOLICS WHO WILL, YOU
KNOW, COME OUT AND SAY THAT THIS
WHOLE CONVERSATION THAT'S BEEN
HAD AT THE SYNOD JUST SHOULD NOT
HAVE HAPPENED AT ALL AND THE
CHURCH IS CAPITULATING ON THE
TRUTH AND WE'RE GOING TO HELL IN
A HAND BASKET AND WE ALL NEED TO
GET DOWN OUR KNEES AND PRAY FOR
SALVATION AND APOLOGIZE NOW.
SO THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE ONE
REACTION.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE TWO
STREAMS CONTINUE.

Piya says WE WILL SEE WHAT
COMES OUT OF THE SYNOD AS
THERE'S A MORE FINAL REPORT
TOMORROW.

A caption reads ‘Vatican values. theagenda.tvo.org.’

Piya concludes NO DOUBT PEOPLE WILL
BE WATCHING
TO SEE WHAT CHANGE IF ANY THIS
HAS DONE THE ROAD.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Alicia says IT'S BEEN
A PLEASURE AS ALWAYS. 

What happens when you write to Salt + Light?

A number of years ago, I wrote to info@saltandlighttv.org, to express my regret that the Executive Producer called Catholics names such as "extremists" and "Taliban Catholics." Up to that point, I had no contact with anyone there. I did not expect a response but got one from the Executive Producer, himself.

I see that the theme of that response remains the same, only the recipient is changed. I have a whole collection of these kinds of petty insults and derogatory comments. Some day I should release them all.

Does Mr. Gagliano, who has given millions of dollars of his hard earned money as an apostolate know that this is what the executives there write to people on the business email?

What kind of business or television executive responds like this to a viewer. What kind of papal spokesman mocks people like this. What kind of priest dismisses people and insults them in this manner.

I can imagine how the recipient felt upon receiving it. I remember my own reaction.

When Pope Francis was talking about the "peripheries" and the "scent of the people" who was he speaking about?

Dialogue, eh?

From the combox (and as it was made public by one of the recipients and given to me posted in the combox)

Vox,
Thank you for standing witness to truth and educating some of us who have been blinded by deceitful men in the Church. I decided to write the email address at "Salt + Light" this past Saturday wondering if the email would get back to him. I am not sure if the exchange was ever between he and I or one of his spokesmen. Here is the exchange (the initial email was to info@saltandlighttv.org):
Veritas Augustine: "What Fr. Rosica is speaking is pure evil and folly!!! It is shameful! But, praise be to God for the Blessed Mother's apparitions that have forewarned of these wolves in sheeps clothing!
It is utterly scary what is being preached by men like him. The only place he is wanting to meet people is on their path to the eternal fires of hell. It is false mercy he is preaching! 
In Christ, VA

Response from Thomas Rosica (rosica@saltandlighttv.org): "Go to confession before you go to mass (if indeed you go to Church!) It doesn't sound like it. I will celebrate mass for you tomorrow morning here at the Vatican. May God help you since you don't know what you are doing, what you are writing, and even what you are believing.
Fraternally yours in Christ,
Fr. Thomas Rosica
Rev. Thomas Rosica, CSB
Chief Executive Officer "
Lastly, I did write two more emails and he provide no response to either.
In Christ,
Veritas Augustine

VATICAN THUGS BAR CATHOLIC PRIEST WITH CREDENTIALS FROM SYNOD YET ALLOWS HOMOSEXUAL LOBBYIST - THE PRIEST IS NOW IDENTIFIED

BREAKING!

Late last week we had reports from Michael Voris that a priest who challenged Gatineau Archbishop Durocher, had his press credential revoked. The next day, it was reported that a homosexual lobbyist who was not a journalist, was given credentials.

LifeSiteNews now reports on the identity of the priest barred by the Vatican and that a second "orthodox" priest also had his credentials removed.

What scondrels these men in the Vatican are in the manipulation of this Synod. Do they really think we're this stupid?

How many times did Pope Francis use the word "dialogue" on his trip to American? 

Dialogue for everyone except Catholic, right Holy Father? 

I wonder which dog-collared lap-dog assistant to Lombardi did the dirty work.

Hmmm.... I wonder.

Vatican revokes Catholic priest’s press credentials after he challenged archbishop

 Catholic , Paul-Andre Durocher , Synod On The Family , Vatican

URGENT: Sign the pledge to pray for the Synod fathers and the outcome of the Synod on the Family here. 

ROME, October 12, 2015 (LifeSiteNews) – Amid continuing concern about the Vatican press office’s “manipulation” of the family synod’s message, a priest who has been covering Vatican news for over 15 years had his credentials revoked last week, and was told to leave the premises “immediately.” The revocation came after he had challenged an archbishop following the October 6 press conference over comments claiming that allowing Communion for the divorced and remarried is up for debate.

Archbishop Paul-Andre Durocher made the comments in response to a reporter’s question about whether the matter pertained to Church discipline – which could potentially change – or doctrine, which is fixed.

“To be quite honest, there might be differences of opinion on that,” Durocher said. “Let’s be honest. Is that a question of doctrine or is that a question of discipline? I think that’s probably going to be one of the questions that will be debated in the small groups.”

"If you want doctrine, go read Denzinger,” he added.

Father Nicholas Gregoris

As Archbishop Durocher walked back after the press briefing, Father Nicholas Gregoris approached him and questioned him on the remarks.

“I told him that I think it was very dangerous to say the Church can change her teaching on the divorced and Communion,” Father Gregoris told LifeSiteNews. In particular, the priest told Archbishop Durocher that “conciliarism is a heresy,” referring to the idea that Church councils can establish doctrine independently of the pope.

Father Gregoris noted that he was “agitated” by the archbishop’s remarks, but argued that “speaking passionately” is not a crime.

Read the rest at https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-vatican-revokes-catholic-priests-press-credentials-after-he-challe

"SATAN IS ALIVE AND WELL AND VERY ACTIVE AT THE VATICAN" AND IN THIS SYNOD!

My apology for missing the link!

An incredible interview by GloriaTV with John Smeaton, Director of the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children and Voice of the Family.

You must listen to this.

Spread it around to every Catholic, to every priest and bishop you know.

Wake them up!

This is your duty! 

The Letter of the Thirteen - signed by Thomas Cardinal Collins, Archbishop of Toronto

There had been indication that a group of thirteen Cardinals presented a letter to Pope Francis expressing their concerns over how the Synod was being conducted. That letter has now been released by Sandro Magister. 

Waking up this morning on Canadian Thanksgiving, which coincides the 19th anniversary of my turning the age of 40, I was given a glorious gift.

The Archbishop of Toronto, Thomas Cardinal Collins signed it!

Your Eminence. Thank you and God keep you strong to persevere. May you always remain in the truth of Christ! Fox and Vox

Thirteen Cardinals Have Written to the Pope. Here’s the Letter

But Francis has rejected their requests en bloc. 

And meanwhile, the “Relatio finalis” has disappeared from the program of the synod

by Sandro Magister 

ROME, October 12, 2015 - On Monday, October 5, at the beginning of work at the synod on the family, Cardinal George Pell delivered a letter to Pope Francis, signed by him and twelve other cardinals, all present in the synod hall.

The thirteen signatories occupy positions of the first rank in the Church’s hierarchy, and three of them are part of the synod’s executive body.

They are, in alphabetical order:

Carlo Caffarra, Archbishop of Bologna, Italy, theologian, formerly the first president of the Pontifical John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family;

Thomas C. Collins, archbishop of Toronto, Canada;

Timothy M. Dolan, archbishop of New York, United States;

Willem J. Eijk, Archbishop of Utrecht, Holland;

Péter Erdõ, Archbishop of Esztergom-Budapest, Hungary, president of the Council of the Bishops' Conferences of Europe and relator general of the synod underway, as also at the previous session of October 2014;

Gerhard L. Müller, former Bishop of Regensburg, Germany, since 2012 prefect of the congregation for the doctrine of the faith;

Wilfrid Fox Napier, Archbishop of Durban, South Africa, president delegate of the synod underway as also at the previous session of the synod of October 2014;

George Pell, Archbishop emeritus of Sydney, Australia, since 2014 prefect in the Vatican of the secretariat for the economy;

Mauro Piacenza, Genoa, Italy, former prefect of the congregation for the clergy, since 2013 penitentiary major;

Robert Sarah, former Archbishop of Conakry, Guinea, since 2014 prefect of the congregation for divine worship and the discipline of the sacraments;

Angelo Scola, Archbishop of Milan, Italy;

Jorge L. Urosa Savino, Archbishop of Caracas, Venezuela;

André Vingt-Trois, Archbishop of Paris, France, president delegate of the synod underway as also at the previous session of the synod of October 2014.

Nota Bene: As of late afternoon on October 12, America Magazine reported that the letter had different names which included Cardinal Daniel DiNardo of Galveston-Houston and Cardinals Njue (Kenya), Rivera (Mexico) and Sgreccia (Italy), not Erdo (Hungary), Piacenza (Italy) Scola (Italy) and Vingt-Trois (France

In the letter, concise and perfectly clear, the thirteen cardinals bring to the pope’s attention the serious “concerns” of themselves and other synod fathers over the procedures of the synod, in their judgment “designed to facilitate predetermined results on important disputed questions,” and over the “Instrumentum laboris,” viewed as inadequate as a “guiding text or the foundation of a final document.”

Here is the text of the letter, in the original English.

Your Holiness, As the Synod on the Family begins, and with a desire to see it fruitfully serve the Church and your ministry, we respectfully ask you to consider a number of concerns we have heard from other synod fathers, and which we share. While the synod’s preparatory document, the "Instrumentum Laboris," has admirable elements, it also has sections that would benefit from substantial reflection and reworking.  The new procedures guiding the synod seem to guarantee it excessive influence on the synod’s deliberations and on the final synodal document.  As it stands, and given the concerns we have already heard from many of the fathers about its various problematic sections, the "Instrumentum" cannot adequately serve as a guiding text or the foundation of a final document. The new synodal procedures will be seen in some quarters as lacking openness and genuine collegiality.  In the past, the process of offering propositions and voting on them served the valuable purpose of taking the measure of the synod fathers' minds.  The absence of propositions and their related discussions and voting seems to discourage open debate and to confine discussion to small groups; thus it seems urgent to us that the crafting of propositions to be voted on by the entire synod should be restored. Voting on a final document comes too late in the process for a full review and serious adjustment of the text.
 Additionally, the lack of input by the synod fathers in the composition of the drafting committee has created considerable unease. Members have been appointed, not elected, without consultation.  Likewise, anyone drafting anything at the level of the small circles should be elected, not appointed. In turn, these things have created a concern that the new procedures are not true to the traditional spirit and purpose of a synod.  It is unclear why these procedural changes are necessary.  A number of fathers feel the new process seems designed to facilitate predetermined results on important disputed questions. Finally and perhaps most urgently, various fathers have expressed concern that a synod designed to address a vital pastoral matter – reinforcing the dignity of marriage and family – may become dominated by the theological/doctrinal issue of Communion for the divorced and civilly remarried.  If so, this will inevitably raise even more fundamental issues about how the Church, going forward, should interpret and apply the Word of God, her doctrines and her disciplines to changes in culture.  The collapse of liberal Protestant churches in the modern era, accelerated by their abandonment of key elements of Christian belief and practice in the name of pastoral adaptation, warrants great caution in our own synodal discussions. Your Holiness, we offer these thoughts in a spirit of fidelity, and we thank you for considering them. Faithfully yours in Jesus Christ.

Magister's analysis follows:

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1351154?eng=y

On the afternoon of that same Monday, October 5, during the first discussion in the assembly, Cardinal Pell and other synod fathers referred to some of the questions presented in the letter, without citing it.

Pope Francis was present and listening. And the next morning, on Tuesday, October 6, he spoke.

The text of these unscheduled remarks has not been made public, but only summarized verbally by Fr. Federico Lombardi and in writing by “L'Osservatore Romano.” As follows:

“The pontiff wanted to reaffirm that the current synod is in continuity with the one celebrated last year. With regard to the “Instrumentum laboris,” Francis emphasized that this results from the ‘Relatio synodi’ together with the contributions that came afterward, that is was approved by the post-synodal council - meeting in the presence of the pontiff - and that it is the basis for continuing the debate and discussions of the upcoming days. In this context, the contributions of the various linguistic groups take on essential importance. The pope also recalled that the three official documents of last year’s synod are the two discourses, initial and final, and the ‘Relatio synodi.’ The pontiff emphasized that Catholic doctrine on marriage has not been touched and then cautioned against the impression that the only problem of the synod is that of communion for the divorced, appealing against a reduction in the horizons of the synod.”

To this account from “L'Osservatore Romano,” Fr. Lombardi added that “the decisions of method were also shared and approved by the pope, and therefore cannot be brought back into discussion.”

From this it can be gathered that Francis has rejected the requests of the letter en bloc, apart from the marginal recommendation not to reduce the discussion only to “communion for the divorced.”

And he has not rejected them without a polemical jab, as afterward made known - in a tweet that has not been disowned - by the director of “La Civiltà Cattolica,” Antonio Spadaro, also present in the hall, according to whom the pope told the fathers “not to give in to the conspiracy hermeneutic, which is sociologically weak and spiritually unhelpful.”
All of this at the beginning of the synod. But toward the end of the first week of work, something else happened. Once again contrary to the wishes of the letter from the thirteen cardinals.

On Friday, October 9, Cardinal Luis Antonio G. Tagle, archbishop of Manila and president delegate of the synod, said out of the blue that with regard to the final relation, “we await the decision of the pope.”

And the next day, Fr. Lombardi clarified that “we do not yet have certainty on how the conclusion of the synod will take place, meaning if there will or will not be a final document. We will see if the pope gives precise indications.”

Incredible but true. With the synod in full swing, a question mark has suddenly been raised over the very existence of that “Relatio finalis” which figured in the programs as the goal toward which all of the work of the synod was finalized.

The “Relatio finalis,” in fact, was the subject of extensive remarks from the secretary general of the synod, Cardinal Lorenzo Baldisseri, in his official presentation on October 2:

That same day, Baldisseri also revealed that Pope Francis had appointed a commission of five cardinals and bishops precisely “for the elaboration of the final relation.”

On October 5, in the opening talk for the work of the synod, Baldisseri returned to illustrate in even greater detail the phases of elaboration and approval for the “Relatio”:

> Relazione del segretario generale

And he talked about it again in the assembly on the morning of October 6, right before the pope spoke.

Not to mention the official working calendar for the synod, which still assigns four full days, from October 21-24, to the writing of the “final relation,” to its presentation in the assembly, to the discussion and presentation of written observations, to its rewriting, to its re-presentation in the assembly and to the definitive vote:

> Calendario dei lavori

In the letter to Pope Francis, the thirteen cardinals expressed their hopes for the restoration of the procedure of past synods, which ended with votes, one by one, on “propositions” to be offered to the pope. Or that at least, in the absence of these propositions, there be a point-by-point vote on a “Relatio finalis” written by an elected commission, not one appointed from on high.

But if even the “Relatio” - as implied - is to be no more, the only product of the synod can be nothing other than a re-elaboration of that “Instrumentum laboris” which the thirteen signers of the letter maintain is incapable of acting as “the foundation of a final document,” partly because of its “various problematic sections,” which are of uncertain fidelity to doctrine.

Because it is true that the 270 synod fathers are working day after day to re-elaborate the “Instrumentum” from the ground up. But it is just as true that the rewriting of the text will be the prerogative of that commission entirely appointed by Pope Francis in which the innovators have an overwhelming majority, the opposite of what holds true in the assembly. And in a sprawling, rambling text like the “Instrumentum” - not telegraphic like the “propositions” of many past synods - it is much easier for a repeat of the 2014 synod to take place, with the inclusion of vague, kaleidoscopic formulas that are hard to reject in assembly with a straightforward vote.

“Catholic doctrine on marriage has not been touched,” Pope Francis pledged in referring to the entire conduct of the synod from 2014 to today, in response to the “concerns” of the thirteen cardinals of the letter.

But Cardinal Tagle, a prominent representative of the innovators, also said at the press conference on October 9, with visible satisfaction:

“The new method adopted by the synod has definitely caused a bit of confusion, but it is good to be confused once in a while. If things are always clear, then we might not be in real life anymore.”