Behold, the Tabernacle of Seattle Seahawks 12

+++

My God, I believe, I adore, I hope, and I love You. 

I ask pardon for those who do not believe, 

do not adore, do not hope, and do not  love You.

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Oh brother, you can even watch it live!  The video has now been removed from the parish website but it has been preserved on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lH9QpWX9G0

This is so not, Catholic.

+++

"And he saith to them: It is written, 

My house shall be called the house of prayer, 

but you have made it a den of thieves."

+++

UPDATED BELOW

St. Mary's Catholic (?) Church
4800 88th Street NE
Marysville, Washington
360-653-9400 ext. 109
www.stmary-stanne.org

Father Dwight Lewis
Parish Administrator
administrator@stmary-stanne.org

Seattle Archbishop J. Peter Sartain will respond to regular mail sent to: 
710 9th. Avenue
Seattle, WA 98104

The email for the Chancellor is:
mary.santi@seattlearch.org

Vicar for Clergy
gary.zender@seattlearch.org

St. Francis de Sales Oratory of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest in St. Louis, Missouri 

UPDATE FROM COMBOX:

A member of the parish in Marysville left a comment. It deserves to be read and answered, so I am taking the liberty of attaching it here. However, I have now removed her name and her comments from the combox. She is distressed and has no reason to apologise. This is about clarifying a bad situation and bringing people to know that the liturgy is not a game we play, like football. 

May the person who put this comment know that she is loved and appreciated for her openness here and she does not need to feel bad about writing. However, I think it is important that the comment and my explanation stand in the interest of catechesis.

I am a member of this parish. Marysville is the city that just had a shooting at our high school 100 days ago. Father was trying to stir a healing, to find joy in life and show community and energy. It does not change the mass or its sacredness. We do not cover our heads, and most teens wear jeans to mass but they come! It is not right to be Pharisees and Sadducees. Jesus healed on the Sabbath and ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. This priest is bringing people to Jesus and meeting them where they are. Shame on you who judge. This is a community who love Jesus and wanted to celebrate and give thanks for the good in the world as well as the good in our faith at a tough time in Marysville. Uniting and celebrating the good. If you think this was wrong than you have that right but do not judge what you do not understand. I love our priest, our church, and will defend it. This city has been through so much. Pray for us, not hate and point fingers. This same church just opened a homeless shelter! Jesus is in our Faith Formation classes, our choir, and with our saints!

Let me assure you of my respect and prayers regarding the tragedy which happened in your town. I was not aware of this sad event, just one more in a long series of tragedies in schools across America. I must say that I was probably more pre-occupied with the murders of two of our soldiers in Canada by Islamo-fascist terrorists (which our Prime Minister calls out by name) to have paid much attention to that shooting; or perhaps I am becoming as many are, immune to the situation. Regardless, it was a tragedy for those victims and their families and the community. May the dead rest in peace with Our Lord and may the perpetrators be confounded and the mourning comforted. I am sure that everyone here reading this will pause now and say a Hail Mary for those who continue to suffer from this event.

...

Now, the rest you are probably not going to like because I am going to give it to you straight. It is clear to me that you have erroneous opinions based on an ill-formed Catholic faith and catechetical upbringing and I will try answer you with charity, and clarity!

1. "Father was trying to stir a healing, to find joy in life and show community and energy."

I am sure that you are familiar with the saying, "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions?" Well, that's the road ahead if that is what he was trying to do. First, I don't know Father's real intention. However, presuming that you are correct and this was his intention, objectively speaking, he was wrong and committed an abuse of the liturgy which for a priest, can be a very serious sin. I am actually surprised -- given that he is African I would have thought that he would know better. Perhaps though, he has been infected with the poison administered by previous Archbishops of Seattle beginning with Hunthausen that your current Shepherd is trying to remedy. Seattle has not been known for more than a century now of orthodoxy and true liturgical renewal but rather of liturgical abuse and heretical influences. How are the vocations there doing? You can read it all at the archived Seattle Catholic. On your point about "healing, joy in life and community and energy," let us put energy aside because that could mean anything. If you think that NFL football and other non-purposed paraphernalia in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass provides healing and joy, then that explains more about the situation in your parish and your faith knowledge than it does about anything else. Healing is found in prayer and adoration and in the Sacraments, the first and most particular being Penance and the Holy Eucharist. Joy is found in Truth and what was done here is none of that. Given that Father -- after pronouncing the final blessing, -- put on a Seahawks ski cap and threw a Seattle Seahawks blanket over his chasuble before the recessional, he may have known exactly what he was doing.

2. It does not change the mass or its sacredness. 

Wrong - it most certainly does! The fundamental problem is that, with all respect, you seem to have no idea what the Mass actually is and what is taking place at Mass. The word Mass comes from the Latin - missa which means "you are sent" the last words of the liturgy are, Ite missa est - Go, you are sent and that is part of our western language problem beginning with the Latin. Our ancestors knew what it meant - mission, we seem to have lost that. However, in the East, the liturgy is referred to as Divine Worship. In my own ancestors land of Lebanon in the Maronite Rite, it is Qurbono -- literally, The Sacrifice! There is a more fundamental fact seemingly poorly catechised Catholics are ignorant of and it is this: -- the Mass is the Sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary brought forward in time and re-presented on the Altar of Sacrifice in our churches. It is a propitiatory offering to God the Father by God the Son through the God the Holy Spirit of the once and final blood sacrifice of Christ in an unbloody manner for the expiation of my sins and yours and all of humanity should they come to Him to be baptised in water and washed by His blood! The problem, or so it seems, is that you were not taught this for the simple reason that many Catholic teachers, priests and bishops don't believe it. Further, the posture of the priest facing the people and the horizontal plane on which the Altar sits masks it (see the picture above from St Francis de Sales Oratory to show what I mean). Let me ask you this question -- if you were transported back in time to Calvary to witness the crucifixion of Our Blessed Lord, would you decorate the cross with Seattle Seahawks paraphernalia and jump up and dance or cheer for a sports team? Of course you would not! Therefore, what was done was, in fact, a ridicule of Divine Worship to God and a profanation of the sacred.

3. We do not cover our heads, and most teens wear jeans to mass but they come! 

Nobody asked you to cover your heads (as women) and the 1983 Code of Canon Law does not require it, though it is a worthy thing to do and Saint Paul the Apostle himself would demand it. As for "jeans" -- well, if that is all one has, then jeans are fine, but if you were going to meet the President of the United States (even the current boob in the White House), you would most certainly dress up and put on your "Sunday best" right? Why would you do any less for the King of kings and Lord of lords?

4. It is not right to be Pharisees and Sadducees. 

Ah that old canard, eh?; well, you forgot to add that I'm a "self-absorbed, promethean neo-pelagian" too! Tell me, when Jesus went to the Temple, His Father's house which is to be called "a house of prayer" but which was made into a "den of thieves" by the Pharisees and Sadducees, was he being Pharisaical when he beat them out of the Temple with whips and overturned the tables of the money-changers or was He just being a self-absorbed promethean neo-pelagian? Who then, Stacey, are the real Pharisees and Sadducees? Those who act as the ones did who defiled the Temple or your Church for last Sunday (and heaven knows what other times) or those who follow what Jesus did proclaiming that a "house of prayer has been turned into a den of thieves?"

5. Jesus healed on the Sabbath and ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. 

He most certainly did and your comment is a non-sequitur. 

6. This priest is bringing people to Jesus and meeting them where they are. 

I hope that he is bringing them to Jesus but if this is where they are, they are in the wrong place. The priest must raise them to a higher level and if this is the height of expectation of the priest and the parish for your youth and people of Marysville, then he and you have a pretty low standard for yourselves and your neighbours.

7. Shame on you who judge. 

I'm reporting and besides, what is wrong with judging? We do it every day, you do it. What is it that you are not to judge? I am judging the actions of people that have done wrong. I am not judging your soul or the priest's, or the motives, I have been very careful about that with the word "objectively speaking." Objectively speaking it can be a mortal sin for a priest to introduce such things into the liturgy. Did you know that Vatican II actually taught this? "Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority." - Sacrosanctam Concilium, III. 22.3

8. This is a community who love Jesus and wanted to celebrate and give thanks for the good in the world as well as the good in our faith at a tough time in Marysville. Uniting and celebrating the good. 

All that is good and wonderful but the party does not belong at the Mass, but rather, in the parish hall!

9. If you think this was wrong then you have that right but do not judge what you do not understand. 

Not only do I have the God-given right as a citizen of Canada, but I have the calling as a Confirmed Catholic to preach the truth of Christ and His Church; and trust me, I fully understand what is going on.

10.  I love our priest, our church, and will defend it. 

Good, that is the right place to start. Now, you need to educate yourself on what was wrong with what was done.

11. This city has been through so much. Pray for us, don't hate and point fingers. This same church just opened a homeless shelter! Jesus is in our Faith Formation classes, our choir, and with our saints!

I am sure all people of goodwill will hold your community up in prayer. Nobody is hating anyone here so please don't use the gay-agenda, Islamic-fascist canard of "hater" to describe me or anyone else commenting on this blog. Homeless shelters are wonderful things and good for the parish that it began one. The City of Seattle has a homeless shelter or two, I should think, but it has nothing to do with the Mass or the Catholic Church; the Church is about more than "social justice." Remember, "not everyone who cries, Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven." It is not about abominable worship to God with a homeless shelter that makes it all right; that makes it all wrong. A little bit of poison in water is still poison. It about right worship and a homeless shelter. 

Fundamentally, it seems that what you have not been taught is what was described above about the Holy Mass and that we go to Mass for four reasons which are easy to remember if you think of the Book of Acts, though you touched on it in #8:

A = Adoration of God - FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT.

C = Contrition for our sins.

T = Thanksgiving for all the gifts that God has given to us.

S = Supplication - asking God for our needs and the needs of others.

Nowhere is there to worship the Seattle Seahawks.

One more thing.

Deacon Greg Kandra at The Deacon's Bench picked up this story and quoted directly from two documents easily found on EWTN. Read them there and don't argue with me, take it up with Rome.

The line in the sand

From the infamous Relatio of last October's Synod:

‘Welcoming homosexual persons’  --  “Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community.” ... “Are our communities capable of providing [them a welcoming home], accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?”

From Cardinal Baldisseri, the Cardinal in charge of the Synod:

“The documents were all seen and approved by the Pope, with the approval of his presence,” “Even the documents during the [Extraordinary] Synod, such as the Relatio ante disceptatationem [the preliminary report], the Relatio post disceptationem [interim report], and the Relatio synodi [final report] were seen by him before they were published.”

The Statement on Marriage by the Confraternity of Catholic Clergy (British Province) issued on January 19, 2015:

Marriage was instituted by God, not invented by man (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n.1603). The Creator has built it into human nature, even into the human body, in its two complementary forms, male and female. ‘Male and female He created them’ (Gen.1: 27): man for woman, and woman for man, united in marriage as ‘one flesh’ for the procreation of new life: ‘Be fruitful and multiply’ (Gen. 1: 28). God has given marriage its essential characteristics and proper laws: unity (one man married to one woman); indissolubility (nothing but death can end a marriage); and openness to procreation (in every act of physical love). No president or religious leader, no senate or synod, nor any government, has the authority to re-define marriage. Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Son of God, raised marriage to the dignity of a Sacrament. The marriage of a Christian man and woman is a sacramental sign of His union with His Church (cf. Eph. 5: 32). Since the union of Christ with the Church, His Bride, cannot be dissolved, no power on earth, not even the Pope himself, can dissolve the valid sacramental marriage, once consummated, of a Christian man and woman. ‘Those whom God has joined together let no man put asunder’ (Mt. 19: 6). The Church’s discipline is built upon the doctrine of the faith, and gives practical expression to it. To introduce a discipline at odds with a doctrine thus implicitly undermines the doctrine. The discipline of not admitting to the Sacraments divorcees who have entered a subsequent civil ‘marriage’ follows directly from the doctrine of Marriage and the Eucharist as the Church has received it from Christ and His Apostles. Unless an annulment has recognized the invalidity of the original marriage, then the state of life of divorced and ‘remarried’ Catholics ‘objectively contradicts the union of love between Christ and the Church signified and effected by the Eucharist’ (Pope St John Paul II, Familiaris consortio, n. 180). However sorrowful for their sins they may be, the divorced and ‘remarried’ remain ‘one flesh’ (cf. Gen. 2: 24; Mt. 19:5) with their original and only spouses. Therefore, their second ‘marriages’ cannot participate in the one flesh union of Christ and His Church that is signified and effected by the Eucharist. In the absence of a clear appreciation of marriage and the true meaning of human sexuality, a number of associated moral challenges have arisen. Amongst these is the growth of widespread homosexual activity and the promotion of such behaviour. The Church teaches, as she has always taught, that homosexual activity is gravely sinful, as it distorts one of the most sacred and fundamental dimensions of human life. Even the inclination to homosexual activity is ‘objectively disordered’ (CDF, 1986) in the sense that such a sexual inclination, with its associated tendencies, feelings and expressions, is not properly directed to spousal union, marriage, and procreation. The Church, of course, welcomes all human beings created in God’s image, who by His grace have the power to renounce their sins, live a chaste life and become saints. But the Church cannot bless, or tolerate, sin in any form, nor structures and lifestyles that encourage or promote sin, disorder, and temptation. The Church in so many ways reaches out to those broken and hurt by the breakdown of marriage in our society and by the widespread confusion of what it means to be male and female. No-one is turned away. The first mercy and true compassion is offering to sinners the truth of Christ as the light by which to live. The greatest help for those who struggle is to point out with charity the way of Christ, the only way conducive to virtue and true joy. The Church has nothing, can do nothing, is nothing, without Christ, her Head and Bridegroom. She is the servant of the Word of God (cf. Dei verbum, n. 10). Her pastors therefore have no power whatever to change what He taught about the nature and goods of marriage and have the duty to promote and defend that truth for the good of every person and society.

Well, I guess we know where the line is in the sand.

So, who's Catholic?

Bring it on, baby!

Mary Wagner's bravery

After the hit-and-run by Michael Coren in the Catholic Register on Mary Wagner, the Catholic Register responded with a guest column by Alissa Golob of Campaign Life. Of course it still begs the question as to why was Coren's column published in the first place. 

When one looks at the photo below it can be clearly seen that Coren's hit and the letter to the editor in the CR by a dyspeptic mutterer supporting him and criticizing two bloggers for leading with this news for a month until the Catholic press caught up is even more disgraceful. Mary is a humble and holy woman that would put both of these people to shame. 

I would like both Coren and the mutterer. once again barking up the wrong tree, to comment here about what they have done recently to match the humility, bravery and holiness of this woman and her fight to awake the consciousnesses of Canadians?

Mary Wagner with His Excellency Archbishop Depo of Czetochowa
Photo courtesy of Barona at Toronto Catholic Witness

Below is a an excerpt from Dorothy Cummings Mclean's column. Read all of at the Catholic Register.

Mary Wagner’s bravery is in not minding her own business

BY  DOROTHY CUMMINGS MCLEAN

• January 29, 2015

On Dec. 27, 1989, I was arrested outside a Toronto abortion business, thrown into a police van and locked in a cell for hours. So were about 74 other people, including at least one priest. The CBC reported 80.

Twenty-five years have passed, so readers may not remember that in the 1980s Catholics and evangelicals protested the horror of abortion outside Toronto’s hospitals and its four abortion businesses almost weekly. Back in 1989, only one of the “temporary bubble zones” had been created, and that was around Henry Morgentaler’s business on Harbord Street.

...

I could hold up a sign and take the verbal abuse, and I could even sit where the police said not to sit and get locked in a cell, but I never had the guts or the truly self-sacrificing love to approach abortion-bound women and say, “Please, won’t you reconsider? There is help for women who choose to keep their babies.” It was just too hard — the words choked in my throat.

Breaking the law of “mind your own business” can be harder than breaking the Criminal Code. For breaking that law — for having the courage and love to engage pregnant strangers face to face — I believe Mary Wagner deserves the honour those like her so rarely get.

(Cummings McLean is a Canadian writer and author of Ceremony of Innocence.)

Marcus Grodi - Keep the Faith Brother and keep doing what you're doing! This won't last too long.

Marcus Grodi is an impassioned Catholic. He has a program on EWTN on Monday nights called The Journey Home. It features a convert or revert to the Catholic faith and their story. Grodi himself was a Presbyterian Minister who came home to the One, True, Faith and through is work at The Coming Home Network, he has helped hundreds of protestant Ministers find their way into the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. 

The response from Rome reveals much more than it states. But I have a question: 

When did Evangelic (!!) Gaudium become an Encyclical?

Does Michael Coren support euthanasia?

Oh Michael, I had no idea that you were so gentle, sensitive, so caring and just so warm and fuzzy. The manner in which you interviewed this poor distraught woman from the so-called "Death With Dignity" group which has just had its charitable tax status revoked is just so, so -- tolerant and sweet.

Not viewing your program any more, I depend on good friends out there to let me know the latest; so here's a shout out to C.B for this!

Oh Michael, Michael: Did you really say this?

"Again if someone we know has a month or two to live and it will be a month or two of intense suffering, it does seem to me to be, um somehow very selfish, to say you have to live that amount of time." Michael Coren

Yep, you did!

The teaching of the Catechism of the Catholic Church as to the suffering of the sick is profound and beautiful and a core teaching of our faith. There is merit in suffering. Further, the Church is quite clear that pain can be alleviated and that palliative care is a beautiful and charitable action towards the dying. 

For another reflection on redemptive suffering, let us turn to this man:

"Recognising the necessity for suffering I have tried to make of it a virtue. If only to save myself from bitterness, I have attempted to see my personal ordeals as an opportunity to transform myself and heal the people involved in the tragic situation which now obtains. I have lived these last few years with the conviction that unearned suffering is redemptive." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Would Michael be so gentle and kind interviewing a currently jailed activist for life and against the slaughter of the unborn?

Oh my little dyspeptic friend, do you support Michael on this too? Will you write to the CR about it?

I'm such a TBB, oh goodness, what will I do? 

Laity beg Pope Francis to be Catholic

Imagine the incredulity of this:

Catholic laity have to take it upon themselves to petition the Vicar of Christ and Bishop of Rome, Jorge Bergolio to uphold Catholic Truth. 

How insane is this?

At the time of this posting there are 52, 273 signatures.

Add to them here.

Where is the outrage?

Photo 1: A Filipina scalded with boiling water by her Saudi ARAB Islamist employer for being late with his coffee.

Photo 2: Asia Bibi continues to await her execution in Pakistan for alleged "blashphemy" against someone impossible to blaspheme.

Photo 3: Mary Wagner who pricks the conscience of the state by reminding one and all that babies are being murdered under the law this very minute as you read this.

Picture 4: The Vicar of Christ and Bishop of Rome, Jorge Bergoglio on Wednesday at the Vatican being entertained by a circus troupe.

Picture 5:

Je Suis Vox Cantoris!

Purpose served.

Wife and friends are great comfort.

But my little friend, be very, very careful about what you write or do.

So, does this mean that there was no "rimproverare?"

Rimproverare - pettinare - redarguire - richiamare - rinfacciare - sgridare - strapazzare -strigliare

In English - to admonish - call down - discipline - pull up - reprove - scold - shame - take to task - berate - carpet - chasten - chastise - chide - dress down - have words with - indict - lecture - objurgate -rebuke - remonstrate - reprehend - reprimand - reproach - tell off - upbraid

Look, don't give me that stuff about not changing doctrine or the media distorted. The very fact that this has become an issue lies at the door of one person.

But who am I to judge?

Pope Francis's Meeting with Transsexual Gives 'Powerful' Hope to LGBT Catholics

 

BY SANDRA SOBIERAJ WESTFALL

01/27/2015 AT 04:15 PM EST

As word spread that Pope Francis had opened his residence to a transsexual man denounced by his own parish priest, LGBT activists celebrated the papal meeting as powerful help in the fight for acceptance.
Diego Neria Lejárraga of Spain, 48, wrote Francis last year about how, after sex-reassignment surgery, he felt shunned by his local church in Plasencia in western Spain, where a priest denounced him as "the devil's daughter."
Francis, known to cold call letter-writers, surprised Lejárraga with a Christmas Eve phone call that was followed up on Saturday with a private meeting of Lejárraga and his fiancée at the Vatican City guesthouse Francis calls home.
Lejárraga told the Spanish newspaper Hoy: "It was a marvelous, intimate and unique experience. What happened in that meeting, what was said, is something that will remain between us, the ones that participated, since this is something I want to live with the utmost intimacy."
Even without details of that private discussion, Francis DeBernardo, executive director of New Ways Ministry, which advocates for LGBT Catholics, tells PEOPLE that the fact that it took place is potent symbolism.
"Pope Francis's papacy has been all about encouraging the church to have personal encounters with those on the margins, and that's what this meeting was," says DeBernardo.
The activist says he's not counting on any swift changes to the Catholic Church's teachings on questions of LGBT rights, "but the pope's method seems to be for slow and gradual change and his example is going to encourage other church leaders to seek out and have conversations with transgender individuals and others in the LGBT community."
"A pope's influence is more from his personal example than from any doctrinal edits," DeBernado continues. "That's why this meeting is very powerful and can really help to bring about a lot of good."

Cardinal Baldisseri or Layman - Who do you think knows the Catholic faith better?

Cardinal Baldisseri is one of Pope Francis' closest confidants and is in charge of the disgraceful Synod on the Family.

The Cardinal said that the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ can be "called into question."

A layman said Our Blessed Lord's words are "immutable law."

The Eponymous Flower as the story here.

This and Maradiaga and Marx and reprimands and trans-sexuals.

Are these men all heretics - Aryans? Gnostics?

How much more?

How long until all see the situation from even the very top for what it is?

Ontario's Lesbian Premier's perverted sex education agenda

Benjamin Levin, Wynne and Trudeau adviso, child pornographer

It's not enough that her last adviser, Ontario Institute for Studies in Education's tenured professor and former Ministry of Education bureaucrat Benjamin Levin is a convicted (plead guilty to two of seven charges in a settlement) child pornographer and sexual deviant; now our Lesbian Premier is taking advice from two 13 year old coquettes who could also be considered by a certain four letter-word, but hey, who am I too judge, eh?

Joe Warmington of the Toronto Sun reports that  if "Premier Kathleen Wynne thought bringing in two 13-year-old girls to help push through her new sex education curriculum would prevent push back, she misread it." 

The lesbian premier intends to force this filth on children at Grade 1 including masturbation, oral sex, deviant sodomic behaviour  and lies and indoctrination about multiple genders.

Reverend Charles McVety, a faithful Christian and President of Canada Christian College and the Institute for Canadian Values was "appalled" and made it know that "it won't be done without a fight" according to Warmington. “We abhor the premier announcing that Ontario’s teachers will be forced to teach little children how to give permission for that child to engage in sex” and “I don’t think it is legal to advise a child before the age of 16 on how to give sexual consent."

Teresa Pierre of Parents Are First Educators has organised a petition that so far, has nearly 30,000 signatures. It is important to sign this.

Below, is an example of the pervert that the lesbian Wynne will have foisted on our children. Really? You want this masturbating pervert in front of your kids?

What is it about Germans named Marx?

We are in for a rougher ride this October in Rome. It is quite clear where some of these prelates wish to take the Church. On top of this is Cardinal Maradiaga's comments that the "Pope wants to take this Church renovation to the point where it becomes irreversible" you can get a feel for what we are in for. Either Francis condones this or these men are outright fools. Only the next few months will give us the answer.

Be vigilant and pray. They have not had had the last word.

And see Father Z’s take on Cardinal Marx’s inaccuracy.

Vox.

Cardinal Marx on Francis, the Synod, Women in the Church and Gay Relationships

Jan 22 2015 - 9:11am | Luke Hansen, S.J.

An exclusive interview with the president of the German bishop's conference and papal adviser

Photo courtesy of Stanford University Office for Religious Life/Hagop's Photography

Cardinal Reinhard Marx, archbishop of Munich and Freising, is head of the German bishops’ conference, a member of the Council of Cardinals that advises Pope Francis on church governance, coordinator of the Vatican’s Council for the Economy and author of Das Kapital: A Plea for Man (2008). Cardinal Marx delivered the annual Roger W. Heyns Lecture on Jan. 15 at Stanford University in California.This interview, which has been edited for clarity and approved by the cardinal, took place on Jan. 18 in Memorial Church at Stanford University.

Has your experience on the Council of Cardinals offered you a different perspective on the church?

I have a new responsibility. When I am interviewed—like today—and I am asked, “What are you doing on the council?” and “What does it mean to be with the pope?” I feel a higher responsibility. I don’t see the church in a new way, though. I have been a bishop for 18 years, a cardinal for five years, and have been part of synods. I do see my new responsibility and the new opportunities, and also the historical moment to step forward in the church and be part of the history of the church.

What are the new opportunities?

This whole pontificate has opened new paths. You can feel it. Here in the United States everybody is speaking about Francis, even people not belonging to the Catholic Church. I have to say: The pope is not the church. The church is more than the pope. But there is a new atmosphere. A rabbi said to me, “Say to the pope that he helps us, because he strengthens all religion, not just the Catholic Church.” So it’s a new movement.

In the Council of Cardinals we have a special task to create a new constitution for the Roman Curia, to reform the Vatican Bank and to discuss many other things with the pope. But we cannot be present every day in Rome. You must see this pontificate, this way, as a wider and new step. It is my impression that we are on a new way. We are not creating a new church—it remains Catholic—but there is fresh air, a new step forward.

What challenge accompanies this new time in the church?

It is best to read “Evangelii Gaudium.” Some people say, “We don’t know what the pope is really wanting.” I say, “Read the text.” It does not give magical answers to complex questions, but rather it conveys the path of the Spirit, the way of evangelization, being close to the people, close to the poor, close to those who have failed, close to the sinners, not a narcissistic church, not a church of fear. There is a new, free impulse to go out. Some worry about what will happen. Francis uses a strong image: “I prefer a church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets,” rather than a church that is very clean and has the truth and everything necessary. The latter church does not help the people. The Gospel is not new, but Francis is expressing it in a new way and is inspiring a lot of people, all over the world, who are saying, “Yes, that is the church.” It is a great gift for us. It’s very important. We will see what he will do. He has been pope for only two years, which is not much time.

What can you tell us about Pope Francis, the person, from working closely with him?

He is very authentic. He is relaxed, calm. At his age he does not need to achieve anything or prove he is somebody. He is very clear and open and without pride. And strong. Not a weak person, but strong. I think it is not so important to analyze the character of the pope, but I understand the interest.

What is very interesting is how, together with him, we will develop the path forward for the church. For example, he writes in “Evangelii Gaudium” about the relationship between the center in Rome and the conferences of bishops, and also about the pastoral work in parishes, the local churches and the character of the synods. These are very important for the future of the church. It is also very important that we have a pope. Now everybody in the world is speaking about the Catholic Church, not entirely positively, but mostly.

So Christ did very well to create the office of St. Peter. We see it. But that doesn’t mean centralism. I told the pope, “A centralized institution is not a strong institution. It is a weak institution.” The Second Vatican Council began to establish a new balance between center and the local church, because they saw, 50 years ago, the beginning of the universal church. It is not achieved, however. We must make it happen for the first time. Now 50 years later, we see what it might be to be a church in a globalized world, a universal, globalized church. We have not yet organized it in a sufficient way. That is the great task for this century. The temptation is to centralize, but it will not function. The other challenge is finding a way to explain the faith in the different parts of the world. What can the synods and the local churches do together with Rome? How can we do this in a good way?

Two issues at the present synod are divorced and remarried Catholics and gay Catholics, especially those in relationships. Do you have opportunities to listen directly to these Catholics in your present ministry?

I have been a priest for 35 years. This problem is not new. I have the impression that we have a lot of work to do in the theological field, not only related to the question of divorce, but also the theology of marriage. I am astonished that some can say, “Everything is clear” on this topic. Things are not clear. It is not about church doctrine being determined by modern times. It is a question of aggiornamento, to say it in a way that the people can understand, and to always adapt our doctrine to the Gospel, to theology, in order to find in a new way the sense of what Jesus said, the meaning of the tradition of the church and of theology and so on. There is a lot to do.

I speak with many experts—canon lawyers and theologians—who recognize many questions related to the sacramentality and validity of marriages. One question is: What can we do when a person marries, divorces and later finds a new partner? There are different positions. Some bishops at the synod said, “They are living in sin.” But others said, “You cannot say that somebody is in sin every day. That is not possible.” You see, there are questions we must speak about. We opened a discussion on this topic in the German bishops’ conference. Now the text is published. I think it is a very good text and a good contribution for the discussion of the synod.

It is very important that the synod does not have the spirit of “all or nothing.” It is not a good way. The synod cannot have winners and losers. That is not the spirit of the synod. The spirit of the synod is to find a way together, not to say, “How can I find a way to bring my position through?” Rather: “How can I understand the other position, and how can we together find a new position?” That is the spirit of the synod.

Therefore it is very important that we are working on these questions. I hope that the pope will inspire this synod. The synod cannot decide; only a council or pope can decide. These questions must also be understood in a broader context. The task is to help the people to live. It is not, according to “Evangelii Gaudium,” about how we can defend the truth. It is about helping people to find the truth. That is important.

The Eucharist and reconciliation are necessary for people. We say to some people, “You will never be reconciled until your death.” That is impossible to believe when you see the situations. I could give examples. In the spirit of “Evangelii Gaudium,” we have to see how the Eucharist is medicine for the people, to help the people. We must look for ways for people to receive the Eucharist. It is not about finding ways to keep them out! We must find ways to welcome them. We have to use our imagination in asking, “Can we do something?” Perhaps it is not possible in some situations. That is not the question. The focus must be on how to welcome people.

At the synod you referred to “the case of two homosexuals who have been living together for 35 years and taking care of each other, even in the last phases of their lives,” and you asked, “How can I say that this has no value?” What have you learned from these relationships and does it have any bearing on sexual ethics today?

When speaking about sexual ethics, perhaps we must not begin with sleeping together, but with love, fidelity and the search for a life-long relationship. I am astonished that most of our young people, and also Catholic homosexuals who are practicing, want a relationship that lasts forever. The doctrine of the church is not so strange for people. It is true. We must begin with the main points of the doctrine, to see the dream: the dream is to have a person say, a man and woman say, “You and you, forever. You and you, forever.” And we as church say, “Yes, that’s absolutely OK. Your vision is right!” So we find the way. Then perhaps there is failure. They find the person, and it is not a great success. But life-long fidelity is right and good.

The church says that a gay relationship is not on the same level as a relationship between a man and a woman. That is clear. But when they are faithful, when they are engaged for the poor, when they are working, it is not possible to say, “Everything you do, because you are a homosexual, is negative.” That must be said, and I have heard no critic. It is not possible to see a person from only one point of view, without seeing the whole situation of a person. That is very important for sexual ethics.

The same goes for people who are together but marry later, or when they are faithful together but only in a civil marriage. It is not possible say that the relationship was all negative if the couple is faithful together, and they are waiting, or planning their life, and after 10 years they find the way to come to the sacrament. When it is possible we must help the couple to find fulfilment in the sacrament of marriage. We discussed this question at the synod, and many synod fathers share this opinion. I was not alone in this opinion.

Just last month Bishop Johan Bonny of Antwerp, Belgium, said the church should recognize a “diversity of forms” and could bless some gay relationships based on these values of love, fidelity and commitment. Is it important for the church to discuss these possibilities?

I said in the synod that Paul VI had a great vision in “Humanae Vitae.” The relationship between a man and a woman is very important. The sexual relationship in a faithful relationship is founded on the connection of procreation, giving love, sexuality and openness to life. Paul VI believed that this connection would be destroyed. He was right; see all the questions of reproductive medicine and so on. We cannot exclude this great model of sexuality, and say, “We have diversity,” or “Everybody has the right to….” The great meaning of sexuality is the relationship between a man and a woman and the openness to give life. I have also previously mentioned the question of accompanying people, to see what people are doing in their lives and in their personal situation.

How will the Catholic and Protestant churches mark the 500th anniversary of the Reformation in 2017? What are the possibilities for greater cooperation among our churches?

We are on a good path in Germany and at the level of the Holy See, with the Lutheran World Federation, to bring together our memory of this time. We the Catholic Church cannot “celebrate” this anniversary, since it is not good that the church has been divided during these centuries. But we have to heal our memories—an important point and a good step forward in our relationship. In Germany I was very happy that the heads of the Protestant church are very clear they don’t want to celebrate the anniversary without the Catholics. One-hundred years ago, or even 50 years ago, a Protestant bishop would not have said, “I will only celebrate when the Catholics are present.” So we are planning it. “Healing Memories” will be a celebration together.

In Germany the heads of the Protestant church and the Catholic Church will also make a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, to go back to our roots. We will make a greater celebration not of Martin Luther but Christ, “Christusfest,” to look forward: what is our testimony now, what can we do now, what is the future of the Christian faith and what can we do together. These are our plans for marking the 500th anniversary.

Pope Francis has called for an increased role of women in the church. What can you imagine as possible? What would help the church better fulfill its mission?

The de-clericalization of power is very important in the Roman Curia and the administrations of dioceses. We must look at canon law, and reflect theologically, to see what roles necessarily require priests; and then all the other roles, in the widest sense possible, must be open for lay people, men and women, but especially women. In the administration of the Vatican it is not necessary that clerics guide all the congregations, councils and departments. It is a pity that there are no women among the lay people in the Council for the Economy. The specialists were chosen before I started as coordinator, but I will search for women to serve in this role.

For the first time ever in the Vatican, our council has lay people with the same responsibilities and rights as the cardinals. It does not seem like a big thing, but great things begin with small steps, right?

I say it and repeat it also in my diocese: Please see what you can do to bring lay people, especially women, into positions of responsibility in diocesan administration. We have made a plan for the Catholic Church in Germany to have more leading positions in diocesan administrations to be fulfilled by women. In three years we will look at what has been done.

On this issue we must make a great effort for the future, not only to be modern or to imitate the world, but in realizing that this exclusion of women is not in the spirit of the Gospel. Sometimes the development of the world gives us a hint—vox temporis vox Dei (“the voice of the time is the voice of God”). The development in the world gives us signs, the signs of the time. John XXIII and the Second Vatican Council said we must interpret the signs of the time in light of the Gospel. One of these signs is the rights of women, the emancipation of women. John XXIII said it more than 50 years ago. We are always on the way to fulfilling it.

Progress is not apparent.

Sometimes it has become worse!

What impediment needs to be overcome?

Mentality! Mentality! Mentality! And the decisions of those responsible. It is clear: The bishops have to decide. The bishops and the Holy Father have to begin the change. I was very often in seminars or courses for heads of companies, and that was always clear: the stairs are cleaned from above, not from below—top down, not bottom up. So the leaders must begin; the chiefs must begin. The mentality must change. The church is not a business, but the methods are not so different. We have to work more in teams, in projects. The question is: Who has the resources to bring these ideas forward? Not: Who is clerical? God gives us all these people, and we say, “No, he is not cleric, he cannot do this job, or his idea is not so important.” That is not acceptable. No, no, no.

Pope Francis will make his first visit to the United States in September. What is your hope for the visit?

I am always astonished by the pope’s capacity to bring people together and to inspire them. I hope the people in the United States can experience this too. One of the main tasks and challenges for a bishop, and for the pope, is to bring people together and unify the world. The church is instrumentum unitatis, an instrument and sacrament of unity among the people and between God and the people. I hope that when the pope visits the United States—and possibly the United Nations—the church can show to the world that the church will be an instrument not for itself but for the unity of the nation and the world.

Luke Hansen, S.J., a former associate editor of America, is a student at the Jesuit School of Theology of Santa Clara University, in Berkeley, Calif.

All things on heaven and earth submit to the Cross of Christ

The Arab world has a disease. It is sick and fruitless. As one of Lebanese ancestry, I am particularly able to say it. They have given the world nothing good. What good has come in 1500 years? Right, you can't name it because there is nothing. No great scientific achievement, no medical discovery. No feet of engineering. No art. No great cultural advance, No great spectacle of engineering. No musical gifts for the world. No genius. Nothing! Nothing good for the world. Nothing but blood and terror inside their lands and wherever they have gone in the world.

These desert Bedouin have destroyed the great cultures of Egypt, of Babylon and Chaldea, of Assyria, of Persia and of Mount Lebanon; all which had become Christian within their ancient cultures. They've extended their reach to Asia and have done nothing for those in poverty. What culture now exists in these lands other than poverty and hatred? 

What have they done with their wealth. Wealth they did not earn but sat upon until the British taught them how to get it out of the ground. Where is the generosity to the Palestinians to educate, build factories and hospitals and research institutes and live in peace with their neighbour? The Arabs don't care about about the Palestinians, they never did. It is not in their pathetic interest to see them prosper in peace with the Jews because they need the Jews to focus hatred and envy and war and death. Where is their filthy oil money? Why does it not help to alleviate suffering in the lands that their false prophet religion has dominated. How many suffer in Bangladesh and these filthy oil sheiks sit by. 

The world is to mourn the death of a desert King? Well, may the Triune God have mercy upon him but at least he knows now the truth about his so-called prophet. 

They twisted the truth because they hate and named the bastard son of Abraham as Isaac instead of Ismael the real bastard and they rejected the Light of Christ and have spread a false religion throughout much of the world leaving in its wake poverty, backwardness, persecution and death.

Nothing good has come from them, nothing will until the day comes when the word Islam which means "to submit" does exactly that. That day will come, very soon, when these and their progeny will come to the reality that even the crescent will submit to the Cross without which their is no hope, no life, no victory!