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Friday, 10 June 2011

Ordinariate for the FSSPX?

It is being reported on Rorate Caeli Blog through Messa in Latino that the Holy Father is about to propose to Bishop Fellay, FSSPX, the institution of an Ordinariate, in order to regularise the situation of the FSSPX and their allied communities.

This may be the solution that is needed to fix this problem.

Akin to the Military Ordinatriates and the new Anglican Ordinatriates, these are essentially "dioceses" without borders. This solution would allow the Priestly Society of St. Pius X to continue its good work without the rancour of accusations of "schism" and it would normalise their situation in the Church. It would further prevent a local Ordinary from interference in their affairs.

Personally, it would be wonderful to see a "Canadian Ordinariate" for the SSPX and having an Ordinary for Canada appointed. Wouldn't the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops just go apoplectic over that one as the Ordinary (whether a priest or bishop) would be a member!

Those of us who are trying to rebuild our sacred heritage in the Usus Antiquior or ensuring that the Novus Ordo is celebrated with the hermeneutic of continuity which it should have had must pray for this to be resolved. It may happen and it may happen very quickly.

All Catholics, worldwide need the SSPX question solved and the bishops, priests and religious and the lay-catholics attending their chapels need this resolved. This may be the way to do it.

To those in the SSPX who believe that Rome must "fix" the problems in doctrinal interpretation or the Second Vatican Council first, forget it. You are not Peter.

This is like the house burning with papa fighting the fire in the house and the boys are outside and won't come to help. They say, "you put the fire out and then we'll come in." They stand outside yelling and giving him instructions and demands but they don't come in to help him in the battle.

It is time to get in this fight my SSPX friends from the inside.

10 comments:

Anil Wang said...

While I agree with the, "you put the fire out and then we'll come in." comment, I can't help but see that the ecumenism of return for the TAC, ALCC, Orthodox, and SSPX all involve the high place of liturgy and a proper understanding of Vatican II. This in turn lines up with the Pope's desires for understanding Vatican II under the hermeutic of continuity.

I can't help but see a collusion of sorts in the negotations. Ecumenism has in the past been used by liberals to water down the faith. The Holy Father is using it to strengthen the faith. I don't think that SP, UE, the Ordinariate, and the corrected Roman Missal would have had anywhere near the traction that they do if it weren't for this ecumenism to bring outsiders in.

Given this, I strongly expect that even if the TLM Ordinariate is created, the SSPX have been told to hold off joining until the other shoe drops, namely a syllabus of errors on Vatican II. Mgr. Guido Pozzo hits at this when he states that the SSPX has a point on the misinterpretation of Vatican II (quite a consession that ultimately begs a remedy). Without the context of ecumenism, such a syllabus would be balked at by liberals and moderates who are comfortable with the status quo and don't want to make waves. With ecumenism as an excuse, liberals are disarmed and moderates are sympathetic.

Young Canadian RC Male said...

Errr, I am not so keen on this one, Vox. Your paragraph with regards to their overall attitude kind of sums it up:
"To those in the SSPX who believe that Rome must "fix" the problems in doctrinal interpretation or the Second Vatican Council first, forget it. You are not Peter."

While I admit they do the EF only and they didn't give into the liberal stuff poisoning the church today, until they stop bashing Vatican II, and will come to 100% canonical aggrement with Rome, I can't be all smiles and cheers about this yet.

Also I dislike some of their minor practices: Tonsuring their altar servers or cropping their hair (I am biased cause of my hair, but one can wear their hair respectufully while serving in the NO/EF with some well applied gel/grease/spray and combing)) and their women adhere to a dress code that seems a little too modest to close to being "light" versions of mennonite/Orthodox Jews a la Bathurst St. as seen here http://www.flickr.com/photos/sspxcanada/4613336384/in/set-72157624074503226. A spectrum is seen in this photo. While I do detest the lack of modesty in the Novus Ordo modern Roman Catholic Church, this to me crosses a fine line. Furthermore, some priests have fled the society due to a "cultish" mentality, hypocrisy, and severe harassment to the point of violence in North America. There are a couple of websites as proof of this out there, one from the USA, and another composed by two priests who fled the SSPX while stationed in Toronto.

Anil Wang said...

Young Canadian RC Male, I don't understand about the modesty. I expected to see photos of women with their head covered and no ankles showing, but instead I saw nothing out of the ordinary. I went to a public High School in Toronto in the mid 80's. Most girls dressed like that or wore fashion jeans. (My year book photos confirm this). The 80's was hardly a puritanical time.

BTW, those are all girls, not women. How else should they dress on cool spring day (May 15)? In micro bikinis?

If you have problems with SSPX practices, I don't suggest you visit Catholic Churches in the middle east, or the Ukraine, or Russia, or China, or Korea, or ....

Ultimately, the SSPX will have to either fall in line with the Church or become sedevacantist. But if they do return in accordance with the Church, we *must* welcome them because that Christ wanted us to be one.

Vox Cantoris said...

Dear Young Canadian...

There is a lot to bash about Vatican II or at least its false interpretation? Many Catholics not associated in any way with the SSPX do this all the time.

I don't think that they should be "forced" to accept Vatican II before the possibly Ordinariate any more than I think that Rome should fix all things before they come "home." There is room in the church for the debate.

They will tell you that Vatican II was not a "doctrinal" Council; there were no heresies condemned, not anathemas, no dogmas proclaimed; so what is their to deny, it was a "pastoral" Council.

I am confused on the tonsuring of Altar Boys; I know many at the Toronto chapel, I've never seen this. I've also known a man there whose hair, tied in a pony tail to his mid-back, served at the Altar.

As for the clothes, this is how my older sister dressed in the 1950's.

Vox Cantoris said...

Anil Wang said:

"Ultimately, the SSPX will have to either fall in line with the Church or become sedevacantist. But if they do return in accordance with the Church, we *must* welcome them because that Christ wanted us to be one."

AMEN! Vox...

Young Canadian RC Male said...

Alright, well it's more than just their stance on Vatican II that's got me worried. While initially researching SSPX (before I learnt of their canonical and sacramental position) and recently, I have encountered a few websites that have described, in vivid detail, many faults with the SSPX, but worse of all that their communities seem to be rigid to the point of some critics saying is cultish (e.g. psychologically supressive of their followers, verbal abuse and harassment of "dissenters", etc.) with questionable finance issues concerning property and chapels. That's my bigger issue. I invite Both you and Anil to read these to see that letting the SSPX in without a major overhaul might be a big mistake:

http://www.whyiamacatholic.com/SSPX/main.htm#Feedback

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/SSPX_mainpage.php

http://sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id7.html

In the first and third link, pay a particular attention to a Fr. Rizzo who was expelled in the early 90's From the St. Mary's, Kansas SSPX community. His story is in the third link in two postings: http://sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id82.html
http://sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id21.html.
That first posting on Fr. Rizzo, further down, shows only an example of what was happening in the school associated with the St. Mary's community.
Furthermore, here's a recent post by our Favourite traditionally minded internet priest, Fr. Z where a new controversy appeared about the St. Mary's school and the article also list prior controversies: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/04/article-on-st-marys-ks-some-pretty-hard-things-to-think-about/

The First link at the top has 2/3 authors being former SSPX priests who were stationed in the Toronto location but ejected in 1998. There's a section at the bottom with letters received and it's clearly not just a few stories here and there. With many of the links on these pages and the letters, many of those people have their names and adresses/locations withheld for protection. Something's wrong with that if they are speaking out about the SSPX.

Now you may say, it's 2011, perhaps things have changed. But with these name withheld accounts, and if you read further interesting financial debacles concerning property, it just makes me wonder if accepting them non-conditionally or without further investigation by both ecclesial and civil law authorities would only lead to another Legionnaires of Christ situation (which I find sad considering LC and its lay arm Regnum Christi have good programs) or would cause backlash on the Vatican were SSPX to do something scandalous and the media and Catholics point the finger at the Pope.

I guess to end off, I'd rather watch this situation cautiosly from afar, and pray that B16 will be making the right and thoroughly researched decision if he gives SSPX the chance to reconcile with the Catholic Church canonically.

Kristin said...

Hi Vox, I'm sorry to "hijack" your com box but did you hear that Linda Gibbons was finally released from prison? http://freelinda.blogspot.com/

Vox Cantoris said...

Yes; watched here on Ezra last night.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand nor do I think the SSPX will go for this at all.
Even the Anglicans who came to Rome under the Ordinariate had to sign on the dotted line re the Catechism.

The SSPX consider Rome outside the Church not themselves! They have ALL the answers, not Rome and the rest of us are going to hell in a handbasket!

Anonymous said...

I have a friend who is a former Anglican and she says that they didn't have to accept Vatican II so if that's the case for the Anglicans the same should be offered to the SSPX.