Friday, 10 November 2017

If he smoked, is he a Saint?

Image result for john xxiii smoking


Will he next ban cocaine, child pornography and sodomite orgies?


30 comments:

Ana Milan said...

“According to the World Health Organization, every year smoking is the cause of more than seven million deaths throughout the world.” @catholicherald.co.uk. According to the WHO there are an estimate 40-50 million abortions carried out every year & unodc.org estimates global number of drug users averaged 255,000,000 in 2015. How many souls have been lost since this pontificate began? Incalculable!

Michael Dowd said...

Banning smoking is virtue signaling; cocaine, child pornography and sodomite orgies not so much.

Anonymous said...

O please Jorge get the right job, go join the tree hugging greens political party. They are just as insane as you and your useless henchmen are.

Kathleen1031 said...

How weird to see a saint puffing on a cig. Something's not right.

Anonymous said...

GK Chesterton summed up smoking this way:

“The thing[smoking] is a typical mild human indulgence, enjoyed by most people and over-enjoyed by a few people, a thing like scent or sweetmeats. Realize that the reality which we all know it to be, and then measure that mad abyss of disproportion, on the other side of which are the eight States holding up their streets with policemen and treating every man who is carrying a cigarette as if he were carrying a bomb. Thus all our cranks of culture are leading us back (or onward) into barbarism. For the essence of barbarism is idolatry; that is the worship of something other than the best reason and justice of the Universe. Idolatry is committed, not merely by setting up false gods, but also by setting up false devils; by making men afraid of war or alcohol, or economic law, when they should be afraid of spiritual corruption and cowardice. The Moslems say, "There is no God but God." The English Moslems, the abstainers, have to learn and remember also that there is no Satan but Satan.

And as to Papal "indulgences"....read this

https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/pope-benedict-marlboro-man

DisturbedMary

Catechist Kev said...

I believe one Gilbert Keith Chesterton would be a tad outraged about this.

I can hear him saying something like:

"Given the smoke and mirrors coming from the current Vatican culture, why are they so concerned with my Havana pleasures?"

Catechist Kev

Restore-DC-Catholicism said...

As the saying goes, "the broken clock is right at least twice a day". When these progressives botch things right and left, causing us to call them out, why mock them for the few things that they do correctly?

As far as an answer to the question about Pope John XXIII, "if the knowledge we have today had been available to him at the time he engaged in that filthy habit, probably not." I know that may not comport with what Chesterson might have said, but last time I checked, faithful Catholics are at liberty to disagree with Chesterton.

Anonymous said...

Smoking is not a sin. These perverse old men come to life when it comes to defending sodomy and all manner of perversity. Yet they condemn something that isn't even a sin.

Johnno said...

Restore-DC

I think the main thrust overall is that Francis has much much MUCH BIGGER problems to go after than this fish in a barrel. That he chooses to clamp down on this paints a portrait of the kind of wreck that he is.

That's Chesterton's main point. Liberals of this ilk will never focus on the larger problems, but will use all power and might at their disposal to clamp down on completely frivolous things.

They deserve all the mockery that is coming to them.

Restore-DC-Catholicism said...

I agree there are bigger issues, and Pope Francis is falling down on those in a big way. That has nothing to do with the veracity of what he said about smoking. If we're going to chide the pope (and I think we need to do so), let's stick with his areas of failure and not muddy the waters.
By the way - Pope Francis' errors could not have been Chesterton's main point, for the latter died many decades ago.

Anonymous said...

On the one hand we have smoking condemned by a society that is promoting abortion and euthansia.Smoking is bad for your health it shortens your life says a society who is promoting agressive population control because too many are living too long.We are living in an asylum run by psychopaths.

Anonymous said...

Padre Pio was known to ask for and have a cigarette at least now and again. I read an article about some Saints who would smoke occasionally...even St Teresa of Avila. It was also done for health purposes as well. Look up at our skies and at whatever is filling them. That's why they don't want anyone to smoke. It all won't settle into the lungs so easily if one smokes. Adultery = good. Smoking = bad. Sheer insanity. It's not the Church and he's not the Pope. The Church infallibly teaches that an heretic cannot become Pope, and if he becomes one while Pope he automatically loses office. Each of the so-called Popes of the last 60 years is a documented heretic before their "elevation". The Great Apostasy and the counter-church began in 1958. Sedevacantism is not the answer either. It's just yet another non-Catholic sect.

ToS said...

John XXIII’s canonization was a political maneuver: little to no cult, only one miracle, feast day on the opening of the council. The canonization process is broken and now we have pseudo-saints like John XXIII and John Paul II. If Francis can do his quasi-canonization on a man whom he disagrees with on Holy Communion for divorcee and “re-married,” (pseudo-saint John Paul II), then he certainly wouldn’t care if John XXIII smokes. Francis is just doing it to promote post-conciliarism and to himself look popular.

Unknown said...

Don't they all smoke cigs after their sodo-orgies?

Kim

Catholic Mission said...


Restore D.C Catholicism.
Bigger issues?
He did not get this one correct and neither has the SSPX

SSPX continues to calumniate Fr. Leonard Feeney : doctrinal ignorance prevents them from using Catholic churches on Sunday.
Return to product informationNo one in the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) knew of any one saved outside the Catholic Church this year or the last 100 years and they are still selling the book Is Feeneyism Catholic? by Fr.Francois Laisney .Reports on the Internet state books by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre are now obsolete and so also books on the Vatican Council II by Lefebrists Christopher Ferrara and Roberto dei Mattei.There is no denial.It has been also shown that Bishop Fellay made a theological and doctrinal error in one of his Letters to Friend and Benefactors and there is no acknowledgement or clarification.They have nothing to say.
Image result for Photo Bishop Charles Morerod OpImage result for Photo Bishop Charles Morerod Op

A few years back Bishop Charles Morerod O.P stated that the SSPX should not be allowed to use Catholic Churches until the doctrinal issue is settled.There was no defense from the SSPX theologians in manifest ignorance.
The SSPX should by now know that Vatican Council II can be interpreted without the irrational premise and the conclusion is traditional.This is a discovery for the SSPX seminarians and priests today.
Capitularies of the SSPX's 2012 General Chapter
But they will continue to sell the book 'Is Feeneyism Catholic' by Fr. Francois Laisney, a priest of the SSPX who was asked by Bishop Fellay to write against Bishop Richard Williamson and he obeyed.The conclusion of Laisney's book is opposite to that of the 2012 SSPX General Chapter Doctrinal Statement which the Vatican liberals at the CDF/Ecclesia Dei rejected.
The traditionalist website Rorate Caeili cannot discuss this issue since the editor, 'New Catholic' is being threathened by the Jewish Left. Even the liberal rabbi who teaches Catholic seminarians ecumenism at the Pontifical University of St.Thomas Acquinas( Angelicum) Rome, objects. He would like Rorate Caeili and the SSPX to continue to interpret outside the Church there is no salvation, with the invisible people are visible premise ;unknown cases of the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) are known exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is important for the emerging new one world religion in a new one world order, which the two popes are supporting.
Fr.Jean Marie Glieze who teaches Ecclesiology at the SSPX seminary Econe, Switzerland, led the SSPX side in the doctrinal talks with the Vatican not knowing that the baptism of desire was never an exception to the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation.This was the ruse of the liberal theologians.Archbishop Lefebvre was in ignorance and accepted it.Since Pius XII did not correct the error.
Image result for Photo Fr.Jean Marie Gleize SSPX
So at the Vatican talks, doctrinally Fr. Jean Marie Gleize was on the Dominican Fr.Charles Morerod's side.Morerod led the Vatican team and was later rewarded. When he was made a bishop in Switzerldand he announced that the SSPX should not be allowed to use Catholic churches unless they settle the doctrinal issue. He meant that they had to accept Vatican Council II with LG 16 referring to known people saved outside the Church.
Bishop Fellay is still clueless.
Also the lay supporters of the SSPX, writers and speakers, are keeping quiet on this issue. They cannot announce that they were wrong all these years on Catholic doctrine.
Possibily next month Rorate Caeili will post a report criticizing Vatican Council II but will not state that the Council is in harmony with Feeneyite EENS.Expect the same from Remnant News, Angelus Press etc.

Continued
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/11/sspx-continues-to-calumniate-fr-leonard.html

Tom A. said...

If, as you say, Bergolio is not pope, nor Benedict (since you say they are heretics), then it logically follows that the see is vacant. You have just made the sedevacantist argument but you deny your own conclusion. Can you explain this glaring contradiction?

Ben.quivenit@gmail.com said...

Apparently, the burning of tobacco interferes with the spread of the smoke of satan.
Watch out, you thurifers! Your job is next up for review.

Irenaeus said...

Great article on the history of smoking as it relates to Holy Mother Church.

In other, totally unrelated news, what next?

Eirene said...

The NO Churches very rarely use incense any more! The Martyrs - when there really was One Church - suffered terrible torture and mutilations for refusing to offer incense to idols!
Incense - we are told - carries our prayers up to Almighty God via the bowls of incense held by the 24 priests surrounding the Throne! (Check the Revelation of St John the Beloved
for details!). Smoking nicotine is IMO the smoke of satan since it enters through our lungs and causes damage to our bodies AND to those unfortunate enough to be around us for any length of time e g Passive Smoking.
Since the Body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, anything that defiles or destroys it must be of satan! I m pleased Francis has banned it in the Vatican. I wish he would do even more than that and resign - pronto!

John Z said...

"Since the Body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, anything that defiles or destroys it must be of satan!"

Maybe the highly chemically addictive stuff that comes out of Richmond, Va is evil, but a rolled, natural tobacco cigarette, pipe, or cigar is a simple pleasure provided by God like wine or beer. Yes drinking too much is also no good but lets not create another commandment "thou shalt not smoke".

Johnno said...

Yes Restore-DC, i am completely aware that Chesterton lived a long time ago before Francis. The point is a guy like Francis isn't anything new. Idiots existed back in Chesterton's day doing the same idiotic things idiots do today - Trying to raise innocuous issues to the level of dangerous mortal sins.

If you can point out to me the commandment that Thous Shalt Not Smoke that is on par with Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery, then we'll have something worthy of praise.

What opposition does Francis the Cowardly face with regards to smoking that he would otherwise face with regards to adultery, homosexuality, abortion etc.?

Maybe next Francis will warn us about watching our cholesterol too? How heroic would that be?

Peter Lamb said...

Dear Anonymous @ 3:06 pm, My eyes nearly popped out of my head.
You say "It's not the Church and he's not the Pope. The Church infallibly teaches that an heretic cannot become Pope, and if he becomes one while Pope he automatically loses office."
Well, you are perfectly correct! I agree with you entirely! If bergoglio is not Pope, then we currently do not have a Pope - right? Then the Seat of Peter is currently unoccupied ("empty") - right? That's what sedevacantism means - the seat of Peter is currently vacant ("empty"). We are currently in an extended interregnum. If you believe what you say, then you are a fellow sedevacantist! Welcome!
Sedevacantism is not some new kind of philosophy, or religion, or sect. We are Catholics who simply recognize the veracity of what you have stated, so how can you possibly call us a non-Catholic sect? Crazy!!!

Guys, this might cost me my friends and admirers, but I LOVE smoking! Started behind the cricket pavillion when I was 15 years old and never stopped. I really enjoy it - first thing in the morning, last thing at night and all the time in between - pipe, cigs, or if necessary, blue gum leaves! :)

Michael Dowd said...

Johnno: Perhaps sin to "Pope" Francis is what he doesn't like and what he does like is not a sin, e.g.., gay marriage. Don't you see, it sin a matter of feeling.

Rab said...

For those defending smoking, please consider this:

1) Smoking is an autodestructive behaviour which can easily lead to big health issues and/or death. People of old times perhaps could be excused out of ignorance, but today you know this as a fact.
2) It's a vice, a passion that makes one a slave to it. Slavery to anything (body, devil, passions, any sin) is an antithesis of holiness, which is God granted freedom from passions.
3) It is a selfish an irresponsible thing to do, since your "enjoyment" can cause harm / death of your neighbour (passive smoking).
4) By smoking you defile your body, which should or rather, must be a temple of Holy Spirit. You cannot willingly and knowingly destroy it. It's plain wrong.

It doesn't matter whether you smoke one cigar, a box or three a day. It is a mindless action damaging both the sinner and his neighbour, making it even worse. Just stop smoking, you will feel both bodily and spiritual benefits, trust me.

Dorota Mosiewicz-Patalas said...

@ Peter Lamb

We still admire you, I am sure.
Do you consider yourself lucky for not having developed serious health problems from all the smoke in your lungs? Or are they a myth?

Anonymous said...

Rab
Opinions are like noses....everybody has one. I will continue to enjoy my cigars despite the moral elites and anti-smoking snobs who pontificate here...so there

GSG

Peter Lamb said...

Dear Dorota, No, they are not a myth, but it's not so cut and dried either. Cancer, heart attacks and many other sicknesses are often multifactorial in their causes. I think of a surgeon I knew. He was a lovely man and a real gentleman. Whenever I passed him in a passage, he would, without exception, give me a lengthy lecture on the evils of smoking. He, of course, had never touched a cig in his life. Well, poor old Robin died of lung cancer at the age of 60 years. I think of a class mate who became a leading dermatologist. He was diagnosed with very advanced lung cancer when he went for a routine annual heart check up and died a month later. We have all heard of the fitness freak who dropped dead from a heart attack the day after he received a clean bill of health.

No, I would not encourage smoking, but there are two sides to every coin. People smoke for a reason. In the old days, it was the social thing to do. Nicotine is extremely addictive, but withdrawal symptoms only last 5 days. The addiction is not the root problem. The root cause is psychological. I know exactly why I smoke. My father was a good man, but he had a very bad temper. When he came home there was tension. Was the sun shining? Was it overcast, or was it going to be a thunder storm? In contrast, my maternal grandparents were the most jovial people on earth. Always happy, always a party, everybody smoking. I associated the smell of cigarettes with happy times. When I was in the army, tough guys smoked, whimps did not. Psychologists will provide a host of other psychological reasons. Smoking is a lightning conductor - a stress reliever. The suicide rate in New York was 8 times higher in non-smokers than among smokers.

My point is that this is a valley of tears. That poor emaciated woman smoking her head off is stressed out of her mind and is smoking for a reason. That poor old man in rags on the street got there due to factors we will never know. He wasn't born that way. None of us are perfect. It is easy to be judgemental; it is easy to be politically correct and run with the crowd; it is easy to be a holy Joe and point out the weaknesses of others. But, as Our Lord said, remove the plank from your own eye before worrying about the splinter in another's. Fat people - same story. Heavy drinkers - same story. The mortally afraid secondary smokers - do not go near traffic, the emissions there are a thousand times worse. I sometimes wonder what the fitness health freaks think about lying on their deathbeds dying from nothing.

No, smoking is not to be encouraged, but a little compassion and understanding is. Also, it's great to throw a cat amongst the holier than thou pigeons sometimes! :)

Rab said...

GSG,
Please, just think about and adress the arguments I mention. They are not my opinions, but obvious facts.

Anonymous said...

Rab....

Piffle....

GSG

Amateur Brain Surgeon said...

Savonarola was abstemious and he would not be caught dead smoking