Tuesday, 28 April 2015

A "dialogue" with the Vatican's English news bureau - "we are all saved already"

The other day, News.va English left a post on its Facebook page following the Pope's meeting with the Bishops of Benin on the on the matter of "interreligious dialogue." THe Pope urged the Bishops of Benin to increase this dialogue with the Islamists in Benin. Since the Pope has recently spoken about the importance of "dialogue" I decided to take him up on this idea ande begin a dialogue with News.va English.

Let us take a look at the discussion, shall we?

(Vatican Radio) Pope Francis has encouraged Bishops from Benin to support families, to pursue the formation of young people and to promote inter religious dialogue.The Pope was receiving a group of Bishops from the West African Nation who are in the …

An interesting lecture from them has ensued:

  • Vox Cantoris Are all religions equal?
    Like · Reply · 1 · 22 hrs
    • News.va English Dear David, please find an excerpt from the Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions “Nostra Aetate” proclaimed by Pope Paul VI on October 28, 1965: "Other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)

      The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men. [...] As the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church's preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God's all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows."

      Also, we would like to share an excerpt from the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church "Lumen Gentium":

      "those who without any fault do not know anything about Christ or his Church, yet who search for God with a sincere heart and under the influence of grace, try to put into effect the will of God as known to them through the dictate of conscience... can obtain eternal salvation". [...] "Nor does divine Providence deny the helps that are necessary for salvation to those who, through no fault of their own, have not yet attained to the express recognition of God, yet who strive, not without divine grace, to lead an upright life. For whatever goodness and truth is found in them is considered by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel and bestowed by him who enlightens everyone that they may in the end have life".
      Like · 1 · 5 hrs

  • Vox Cantoris Dearest News.va English please find this Encyclical QUANTO CONFICIAMUR MOERORE of Pope IX on false doctrines http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quanto.htm

    How much cause we have to grieve over the...
  • Vox Cantoris The Church did not begin at Vatican II. How soon you have forgotten Pope Benedict XVI and the "hermeneutic of continuity."
  • Vox Cantoris You see News.va English, you are misleading and confusing by putting that statement Nostra Aetate which is the lowest of the Vatican II documents. It is not doctrinal and it is not a Constitution. We are not talking of those "with sincere hearts." Further, God is not bound by His sacraments. If the "dialogue" does not PROPOSE JESUS CHRIST and salvation through the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, then what are we doing?
    Like · 7 mins
  • Vox Cantoris Frankly News.va English, you are imbued with modernism and syncretism. All religions are not equal. There is only One, True Faith and it is the Catholic faith outside of which there is no salvation. Get it?
  • Vox Cantoris Should they not promote conversion to Christ?
    • News.va English The very concept of "promoting conversion" is not in line with Christ's message of love of God and of our neighbour. One cannot oblige one person to believe, nor is it the result of rational thinking, rather of humble openness of one's heart to God's grace which gives the gift of faith. What we can do is to share with people our joy for the revelation of the message of salvation and the fact that God is our Father and is a God who loves us and that we have no reason to fear death because death and anything evil have been already condemned and defeated on the Cross by Jesus' sacrifice. We know there will be a new life because Jesus has come back from the dead. We are all saved already and we need to live by Jesus' teaching of sacrificing our evil instinct and acting for unconditional love.
      Like · 2 · 22 hrs  
    • Vox Cantoris What of "no salvation outside of the Church?"
    • Vox Cantoris, News.va English, This is outright scandalous: "The very concept of "promoting conversion" is not in line with Christ's message of love of God and of our neighbour. One cannot oblige one person to believe, nor is it the result of rational thinking," All have free will. You are preaching heresy when you say that "promoting conversion" is not Christ's message or will. "That all be one..." Who is writing this stuff?
      Like · 4 mins

  • Like · 4 hrs

  • News.va English Dear David the Church brings the message of salvation with love, not with judgement.

    Like · 2 hrs 


Anonymous said...

Who wrote this joyful FLUFF? ROSICA??

Anonymous said...

It appears the Faith is officially rendered meaningless when staffers at the Vatican are so clueless. Sounds like my bishop at last Sunday's Novus Ordo Confirmation Mass and Ceremony. The bishop spoke vapid, treacly platitudes to the young people ages 13--15. Nothing of substance about the Faith. Absolutely impoverished of anything regarding Christ, let alone the great commission. He even adopted street talk (because you know, the kids were Hispanic). I wanted to vomit. Such a lost opportunity. As is every Sunday at Mass where pure drivel is dished out. Two Sunday's ago we were told to imitate Muslims and create new names for our God in order to identify Him with his attributes.

Aloysius Gonzaga said...

He said, "we are all saved already."

Well, that assumption explains everything.

Case closed.

Next topic please.

Brian said...

Rome is a Modernist carnival, and every carnival needs a carnival barker. Your interlocutor fits the bill. Was it wrong for Philip to baptize the Samaritans and the Ethiopian eunuch? Was it wrong for St. Peter to receive Cornelius into the Church? Did St. Paul commit a great offence, in Ephesus, against the cult, of Diana? When, exactly, in the history of our Church, did this missionary mandate become null and void? I do wish this modernist snake oil salesman, at the English news bureau, or someone from his camp, would tell me. The Nostra Aetate virus was promulgated fifty years ago. It is just one of the faith destroying viri of Vatican II. Francis, who encapsulates so much of what Popes Pius X and XII condemned, has simply, big time, expedited the infection.

Allan Wafkowski said...

The real issue has been purposely turned upside-down by Modernists. For the sake of discussion, let us concede that the infallibly ignorant can be saved. Can we then do nothing? Of course not. Christ gave a command to the Catholic Church to go out and teach all nations, baptizing them into the true faith. He was unequivocal. Those within the Catholic Church have no right to allow disbelief to continue. We have been commanded by the Savior of the World not to passivity, but to action, even if it costs us our lives. The real issue is the notion of universal salvation. If you believe that everyone (contrary to every word of Christ dealing with the subject) is saved, it really doesn't matter which religion you belong to, nor whether you belong to any religion, or whether you practice any moral code. In universalism's crazy world nothing matters. there are no consequences, Christ is nothing more than, well...me, or you.

Anonymous said...

Heresies abound. They are de facto apostates, and enemies of the One True Holy Faith.

Catholic Mission said...

Vatican Council II tells us all need to be card carrying members of the Church. Where does it say it ? Here.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. -Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. -Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.
Affirm the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church by citing these three passages.

Catholic Mission said...

Questions and Answers : Vatican Council II is Feeneyite. It has an exclusivist ecclesiology

Catholic Mission said...

Questions and Answers : Vatican Council II is Feeneyite. It has an exclusivist ecclesiology

Aloysius Gonzaga said...

Would the Anonymous poster at 10:41 give us a hint as to what diocese this was?



A city?

Catholic Mission said...

This is the official policy of the Vatican.
In Church Sunday Mass leaflets in Italian in Rome ( La Domenica) this is the message.
When I was at the Beda Pontifical College, the Catholic seminary for late vocation in Rome, this was the message some 12 years back.
At the Beda, the Rector, kept saying that salvation is open to all without mentioning that all need to enter the Church for salvation. The English Rector Mons. Roderick Strange was aware of the CDF Notification on Fr.Jacques Dupuis S.J (2001) and Dominus Iesus (2000) but he was not going to change. He is still there teaching the same thing.

We have a choice. We do not have to project Vatican Council II as they do.

We can affirm the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus by affirming Vatican Council II. Let the liberals squirm.
Evangelise based on this model even without help from the Vatican.